Request for disease ID

[reefwreak]

Unfortunately I lost this beautiful Melanurus wrasse. He came from the LFS eating pellets and frozen, I kept him in an isolation container for 48 hours, he was swimming around and eating in there after 12 hours, and there were no signs of aggression from any of the other wrasses in the tank (I have seen aggression before when introducing other fishes this way, and did not see any at all this time).

My tank does have ich, it is managed and has been managed since the beginnings of my last tank. I tried TTM when starting up the new tank, but lost 3 fishes after the first transfer due to stress, so my wife said time to stop and put everyone in the tank. Now I just try to use the acclimation container, watch for aggression, make sure new fishes eat and look healthy in the LFS before coming home.

We won't be adding any more fishes (I know, famous last words, similar to "I'll never drink again"), since we've had a number of losses of new additions despite buying healthy specimens, keeping them in isolation until they're feeding and there are no signs of aggression from tankmates.

So at this point, I'd just like some input on what the ultimate cause of death was for this fish. I want to say secondary bacterial infection from a primary ich infection. Maybe the ich didn't hit him while he was in the isolation container, so he was fine then until he started browsing the tank, picked up ich, couldn't take the "new tank" experience with the ich infection at the same time, and succumbed to a secondary infection? The only indication of infection (and only sign of any ailment at all) is the red spot around the anus, and some fin tearing there.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Amboss72]

Secondary infection broke down the protective layer of the skin which may have lead to a sort of dehydration within the fish. All I have to base this idea upon is the extent of the redness on the fish. This protective layer would have continued to open the fish up to continued dehydration and internal and external infections. I’ve found that wrasse are quite often prone to internal parasites, bacteria and internal worms often based on their feeding behaviors.

 

[reefwreak]

Thank you for the reply!

I'm not sure I 100% follow, but I interpret that as a confirmation of some combination of primary and secondary infection, with Ich and bacteria being the culprits for either.

If I added new fishes, would it be helpful to keep them in the acclimation box at the top of the tank longer? I wonder if they should spend a week "fattening up" and adjusting to water chemistry, routine, lighting, etc. instead of a day or two, and it would protect them from ich tomites, which IIRC stayed closer to the bottom of the tank/sandbed. I wonder if that's why he was fine the first two days, because it was so high up in the tank with relatively little water flow, both working to reduce exposure to ich tomites, and then when free to roam the tank, the fish may have swam close to the sand bed where cysts and tomites are more plentiful, received a quick heavy infection that way, and then become overcome with stress from the rest of the situational adjustments to fight off the ich infection, leading to the secondary bacterial infection? Just a crackpot theory from an armchair scientist.

 

[Amboss72]

I’m not sure about the water box up higher in the tank idea. I’ve never tried that or heard of that idea but by no means does that mean there’s not a hint of possibility in its potential. At the very least it does add to the ease of removal. I’ve always been an advocate for providing my fish with the most nutrient dense food. Just like humans, fish do have immune systems. If their immune systems are strong and your tanks parameters are within a normal range healthy fish can usually shake off or avoid altogether parasites etc. that may enter your system. I think many in this hobby altogether neglect the fact that the fish in our reef systems come from the most nutrient dense place on the planet. They need variety! They need food as close to its natural state as possible as these foods will still have the enzymes intact. I put it this way. Put premium fuel in your car. If your car has no spark plugs are you going anywhere? Obviously not! Yet this is overlooked in not just fish food but people food, pet food etc. Without enzymes food isn’t broken down and delivered correctly. Avoid fish diseases altogether by providing them with abundant nutrient dense food. Let’s face it, the move from the ocean into your water box has to be stressful. They may eat brine shrimp all day long but is there any nutritional value to it? Try eating McDonald’s every day and see how you feel. Obviously your main comer is ich and whether or not it’s still present. It’s always present. You can treat your fishes food with Seachems metroplex and focus mixture applied directly to the fishes food. I would also add some garlic extreme or a similar product. This will not kill your corals etc in your DT. From here on out, if you’re not already doing so, pick the best foods, add selcon or some other fatty acid to your fish food and also a splash of a complete vitamin source. Quality is the name of the game. Correctly adding species of fish that get along is the name of the game. Good water quality is the name of the game. Finally enjoy this hobby. We are all learning in this hobby. The game setters have been willing to try new things. The game setters have looked to nature for solutions. Give your idea a try. See if it works. Let the rest of us know. Feed your fish the best and they in turn will look their best! Happy reefing

 

[reefwreak]

Thanks again for the additional reply and ideas.

I feed a generally healthy diet to my primary fishes, of PE mysis and PE calanus, with them soaked in selcon twice a week, with NLS Thera+ pellets at 2PM daily, and feed nori twice a week. I also happened to feed Rod's Food the day this fish was released into the tank, and he picked at it a little bit, so I think generally there is a good nutritional baseline here, and I credit it with keeping the rest of my fishes healthy long-term despite the ups and downs in water quality, stress, or ich incidence.

I know I don't have many posts, so it might sound like I'm relatively new to the hobby. The tank is relative new (<2 years), but I've been at this for 15 years now. I've NEVER had so much difficulty in a tank as this one, including my 24 and 29g nano tanks. This one has really been a difficult rollercoaster both with SPS and in adding new fishes. Maybe it's that I'm adding faster because I have more $$ so I'm not taking it as slow and steady, or I'm not as observant because I have a wife, life, and kids now versus keeping a tank in college, but either way, I appreciate your response and insight, and insightful post, because this is just one more frustration with this $$$ tank experience that has been the biggest headache of any of the tanks I've ever had.

 

[Amboss72]

I’m sorry if in anyway I implied you were new to this hobby. Clearly your light years ahead of many as per the way you’re feeding your fish. In no way am I an expert and the day I purport to be is the day I know I’m surely not. The last 12 years I’ve maintained a large number of aquariums for private client’s. What you spoke to regarding your life situation may be exactly why this tank has been more difficult. I frequently see individuals life situations, time etc change and with that it seems like tank issues follow. Sometimes relentlessly. You know what you’re doing and maybe there is something to keeping the fish up higher. I’ve been involved in other posts regarding diatomaceous earth filters and the removal of ich. It’s worked for me in combination with the nutritional information we’ve already spoke to. With the cysts and tomites being closer to the bottom maybe a nice vacuuming of the sand would reduce their numbers.