Research stage on Atlantic Pygmy Octopus

[dogshowgrl]

Hello,

Experienced reefer and SH breeder here, I am in love with cuttlefish and would love to own some one day. Until then, I live in Florida and I thought with my access to a known source of Octopus this would be a good place to start.

For Atlantic Pygmy Octopus


PLEASE CORRECT ME!!!!!

the plan:

Innovative Marine 20 nuvo fusion
IM skimmer
Media rack with Phosban and reef spec carbon possibly purigen if needed ( it was helpful in the SH tanks with dramatic swings in bioload)
AI Prime HD
Colbalt heater set to 77
carib sea base rock 20-25#
Fiji pink livesand 20# (too coarse? oolight better?)

I thought I could alter the mesh lid that come with it, by using the seal like on a refrigerator door to close the gap of the pre-made IM lid and some command hooks and loops to add some additional lock down. I am leery on the glass lids with my reef background, don't want to have pH issues.

I typically use RS salt but I saw something somewhere about sensitivity to synthetic salt but never could fine more information on it. any info on that?

Blue legs and astreas for CUC /food
and ghost shrimp more for food.

what do you recommend for water chem. preference?
my goal was
S.G. 1.025
Am-0
No2- 0
No3- Less than 15 goal 5
Po4- less than 0.12
dKH-8
Ca-400
Mg-1300

10% WC weekly

what is your feeding schedule?

any other recommendations?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

If the octopus is a true pygmy species, like O. joubini or O. mercatoris, then a 20g tank would be okay. You have to make absolutely certain that the species your getting is a dwarf though, which in my experience, is impossible to do. I would start with a 20g and be prepared to upgrade if you see your octopus getting larger. Also be prepared to have only a few months with your many-armed friend. I just received my O. hummelincki in July and I think he's beginning senescence already. He hasn't eaten in 5 days now.

A skimmer is pretty important to catch the ink if they have an ink event. Carbon is also important. I would not use Phosban or purigen. Neither of these have much use in an octopus tank. Phosphates are of no concern when it comes to octopuses, and to an extent, neither are nitrates. I'd be very, very surprised if you're able to keep your nitrates between 5 and 15 ppm. Octopuses eat a lot of food and produce a lot of waste. Most octopus keepers struggle to keep them below 50 ppm and shoot for nominal values between 50 and 100 ppm.

I would not use an AI Prime on an octopus tank. It's a waste of a reef light. Octopuses really don't need much light at all. They really just prefer a light on the bluer side during the day and complete darkness at night. If you want to use an AI Prime for tank aesthetics and turn it down to just a few percent per channel, you can. I'd personally get something cheaper and save some money. Keep in mind that depending on the species you get, your octopus might be nocturnal. So they may not come out during the day at all.

The heater looks fine, as does the rock. Be sure the rock is well-cured and ideally, you should seed some of it in your reef tank first to get it established (either that, or cycle the tank with ammonia or shrimp). Generally, more smooth sand is better, but octopuses tend to do okay with coarser sand or crushed coral. I have crushed coral in my O. hummelincki tank.

I'd go with a full glass top. The dwarfs can fit through mesh because their beak is so small. pH is of little concern in an octopus tank so long as it's not too low. You certainly don't need to keep it above 8. You should use an air pump with your glass lid though. This will ensure the water is oxygenated.

If by RS salt you mean Red Sea, that's likely fine. Almost any aquarium salt will work for reef tanks, and the same is true with octopus tanks. I personally use plain Instant Ocean because it's cheap and I do a lot of water changes to maintain nitrates in my octopus tank.

I would personally not attempt to use any cleanup crew in the tank. Your octopus will eat them all. I also would not feed ghost shrimp. These are freshwater shrimp, and aside from potentially not having the proper nutrient balance saltwater animals need, they will not survive more than a few minutes in saltwater. If you want to feed live shrimp, search for grass shrimp and make sure the product listing explicitly states that they are saltwater shrimp. These shrimp can be kept in saltwater until your octopus is ready to eat. Personally, I would try to feed frozen grocery store shrimp before I try to feed live shrimp (make sure the shrimp are raw). There isn't a ton of nutrition in grass shrimp and your octopus will likely burn more energy hunting them than they will get out of them. Grass shrimp can be an occasional treat.

For water parameters, I would make sure salinity was stable at 35 ppt. I'd monitor ammonia during the cycle and right after you add your octopus, until you're comfortable that the tank has cycled and ammonia won't be an issue. I'd ignore nitrates as long as they were below 50 ppm, and I'd ignore phosphates completely. I'd also completely ignore carbonate alkalinity, calcium and magnesium so long as they're in normal reef ranges. I don't even test my octopus tank for those.

Water changes should be done at least weekly, more frequently if you can't keep nitrates below 50 ppm.

I would offer food daily. If your octopus doesn't eat, be sure to remove the food after a few hours so that it doesn't foul the water quality. Your octopus will likely eat daily so long as you don't overfeed. I would try to find the exact amount to feed so that you can feed daily.

 

[andrewkw]

I don't have experience with the pygmies but I do have Octopus experience. I believe the ones you are referring to are nocturnal not diurnal like many of the larger species. One thing to consider if you're not going to have corals in with them is perhaps have some red lighting since they may be difficult to spot during the day. Since you are an experienced seahorse keeper I don't think you will run into anything you can't handle. These guys are probably easier to keep. Check out TONMO.com for better information / advice.

 

[wesman42]

Translation: Octopus are on of the few that shouldn't be kept in capitivity.

 

[andrewkw]

Translation: Octopus are on of the few that shouldn't be kept in capitivity.

Why? Many people keep them in captivity and are also proven to live longer in captivity.

 

[Gareth elliott]

No octopus experience but with the required glass top an oversized skimmer would be beneficial for gas exchange.

Cephalopod ink in each species is a different composition but contains a multitude of chemicals from pigments to neurotransmitters.

Besides gac. An AWS might also help and help keep costs down. As dilution will help with all compounds regardless of charge unlike a skimmer or carbon.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Translation: Octopus are on of the few that shouldn't be kept in capitivity.

I don't agree. There's nothing inherent to keeping these animals in captivity that causes them to die early. They would die at the same time if they were in the ocean. Even the larger ones like O. bimaculoidesis only live about a year and a half or so. The biggest of them all, E. dofleini (the Giant Pacific Octopus), only live 3 years, max. These animals just have pre-programmed death sequences that fire after they've been alive for a certain time.

If these animals were scarce or endangered, I'd tend to agree with you. But, at my local grocery store, right next to the frozen shrimp I bought to feed my octopus, there was a 6-pack of frozen, cleaned octopus. This isn't some specialty seafood chain, this is a regional/national supermarket. Plus, fishermen often capture octopuses as by-catch in their pots and fishing nets. Often times, the octopus is chopped up and used as bait.

Keeping an octopus is not an easy task. There are several things that matter in reefkeeping that just don't in octopus tanks, and vice versa. But, they're not that difficult if you know what they need. If you go in with your eyes wide open about how long they live and you're committed to giving them the environment they need, I don't see any reason why we should not keep them.

 

[dogshowgrl]

thank for all the SUPPORTIVE input. I will trust those of you with the banners. I am not the R2R savvy person my husband is
( i didn't realize he was logged in when i liked your posts earlier. opps!), but I know you earn them with good consistent input. thank you.

notes for more information.

Is there a reason I cannot carbon dose? as long as I have a good skimmer. This tank will be next to several other reef tanks, I know my Prime HD is overkill, these are things I have laying around. I understand there will be dim lighting but I HATE Algae. No, really, I teach algae control classes for marine tanks...lol

I will throw my ATO on there. thanks for the reminder.
Carbon and a good skimmer are absolutely must haves for me.

what are you feeding? any commercial brands you prefer? I live in FL I can get any seafood needed. what should I have on hand for the first few days in case it doesn't eat? I know this won't work for Octo, but for SH we keep live brine on hand just in case for all of our new arrivals, even though we don't feed brine once they settle in. it is just for enticing feeding response after stress. any tricks for the octo that are similar? any huffa or enrichment for foods?


This tank is already a reef tank, that I never got happy with, with most of this running and well cycled for about 8+ months now. I was planning on ripping out the corals and other livestock for this new venture.

I do have several large tanks from 60-450g to move a larger octopus in, and I am willing to build a non-display tank to the specifications needed if it comes to that. But lets just hope for this one to stay small, but I (THINK! AND HOPE!) am prepared in that sense no matter what comes.

 

[andrewkw]

There is no reason you cannot carbon dose. I would still consider a red light in addition if you are getting a nocturnal just so you can see him/her. Unless the red is controllable on the prime?

Again I have never kept this species but I am pretty sure you will be feeding mostly if not exclusively live. Fortunately you are in a great location for this. I recommend
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/Salt-Water-Invertebrates/ - I got stuff from them shipped to Canada without issue and since you're Florida based they might even be local to you. If you get to the point where you are interacting with the Octopus it may be possible to just feed uncooked grocery store shimp ect. You can use a feeding stick or even your hand if you are brave.

Fiddler crabs and shore shrimp are both good options. Generally Octopus prefer more of a crab based diet but I'm not 100% sure on this species. I flipped through the pages of "Cephalopods - Octopuses and Cuttlefish for the Home Aquarium" By Colin Dunlop & Nancy King which is a pretty good read, when I was keeping Octopus and Cuttlefish years ago I picked it up. I didn't see anything specific on the diet for the pygmy.

 

[dogshowgrl]

There is no reason you cannot carbon dose. I would still consider a red light in addition if you are getting a nocturnal just so you can see him/her. Unless the red is controllable on the prime? Yes, very controllable, I had planed on doing mostly red. very dim.

Again I have never kept this species but I am pretty sure you will be feeding mostly if not exclusively live. that is what we planned, I want to have it on hand with as much variety as possible, but that is what I am having trouble tracking down. Fortunately you are in a great location for this. EXACTLY, otherwise I would be significantly more nervous I recommend
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/Salt-Water-Invertebrates/ - I got stuff from them shipped to Canada without issue and since you're Florida based they might even be local to you. Yes about 2 hours away and we use them often for cultures through work. It's in my favorite weekend getaway spot, (Hint Hint hubby reading this!!) Is there any food source that will clean until consumed like hermits and such, earlier I was told no CUC, I want food source that works to death..haha If you get to the point where you are interacting with the Octopus it may be possible to just feed uncooked grocery store shimp ect. You can use a feeding stick or even your hand if you are brave. not brave, not at all. lol

Fiddler crabs and shore shrimp are both good options. Generally Octopus prefer more of a crab based diet but I'm not 100% sure on this species. That's fine this is a great starting point for me, makes sense when I saw one in the wild on vacation it was in a spot that had more crabs that I had ever seen and that's saying something! I flipped through the pages of "Cephalopods - Octopuses and Cuttlefish for the Home Aquarium" By Colin Dunlop & Nancy King which is a pretty good read, when I was keeping Octopus and Cuttlefish years ago I picked it up. will check it out, Is it still in print? I didn't see anything specific on the diet for the pygmy.

I was told not to put cuc in a tank, my question is why not? because it will be eaten... if i am feeding live, CUC eating is kinda the point right? Correct me!!!!

I was planing on feeding live, hermits (blue and scarlet), astrea turbos and ghost, grass, glass (pick one term) marine feeder shrimp. Is there a live food source (other that a beach trip) that I can have on hand? do any of these creatures pose a risk to my APO? I manage a LFS, I have access there is no excuse to not have the food. just give me some direction please!

I get this octopus straight out of the box, may even drive down to pick it out. is there any advice to picking it out? What am I looking for in a healthy specimen? anything obvious?

Acclimation process? all lights off work with red head lamp, float until temp matched, 90 minutes of drip if salinity and pH match, float again to make sure temp is the same, will try to regulate during drip. place in tank, no light until next day.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

what are you feeding? any commercial brands you prefer? I live in FL I can get any seafood needed. what should I have on hand for the first few days in case it doesn't eat? I know this won't work for Octo, but for SH we keep live brine on hand just in case for all of our new arrivals, even though we don't feed brine once they settle in. it is just for enticing feeding response after stress. any tricks for the octo that are similar? any huffa or enrichment for foods?

I fed exclusively frozen shrimp from the grocery store. I was prepared to order grass shrimp if he didn't eat the frozen shrimp, but he did from day two, so that wasn't necessary. In terms of nutrition, grass shrimp and other live foods may not be nutrient-dense enough to support an octopus. Live foods can be offered, but quality frozen seafoods should be offered as well.

If your light is kept very dim, which it should be over an octopus tank, you should not have any problems with algae. I would personally go very, very slowly if you attempt to carbon dose. I personally wouldn't do it on my own octopus tank. There's just not a good reason. Octopuses can tolerate pretty high nitrates with no apparent side-effects.

I was told not to put cuc in a tank, my question is why not? because it will be eaten... if i am feeding live, CUC eating is kinda the point right? Correct me!!!!

Because cleanup crew members like hermits (scarlet, blue legs, etc) are on average much more expensive than saltwater feeder shrimp. Plus, octopus diets don't typically consist of only very small crabs like we use in our cleanup crews. They may not be nutritionally sufficient to sustain an octopus.

And there's a very important distinction between glass shrimp and grass shrimp. Grass shrimp will survive in saltwater, while glass shrimp will not. Grass shrimp can be kept indefinitely in full-strength seawater and can be maintained in a separate feeder system. Grass shrimp also have the proper nutrient ratios that saltwater animals need, since grass shrimp are themselves saltwater.

 

[andrewkw]

You were probably told not to put cleanup crew in the tank to save money. Cheap snails crabs ect are fine. They may get eaten but you've already stated you don't care. Better they do a job while being hunted vs just hiding until they are eaten. A larger octopus may not see snails and hermits as food but yours likely will. Again you might want to double check their exact diet, but if it moves and they can take it on they will probably see it as prey.

As for picking one out, if you have a choice of several I would personally take the smallest one. They live such short lives you want them for as long as possible. Ideally no missing arms but they do grow back rather quickly.

Standard acclimation is fine other then if you do something like drip in a small bucket they may get out. If you're watching it's fine. I've only ever acclimated 2 octopus in my life and nether went through an exceptionally long drip. Keep in mind they can crawl out of the water and climb around on land for a couple of minutes so I'm not sure how much of a shock returning to slightly different water would be, but there is no harm in being cautious.

One final thing I will mention is do not be surprised if you do not see him initially. My first hid for about 2 weeks and did not eat the crabs I had in with him. I tore down the tank and never found his body. I then saw him crawl out of the barrel I had all the live rock in. - He lived almost a year after I put the rock and him back in the tank. They are very secretive especially initially. Having red light will help since they cannot see it but you can. Hope this helps.