Responsible/Perfered vendor list

[Madreef]

I feel like just about any business can be a sponsor here on R2R. As a community shouldn't we be doing more to promote good husbandry practices? Along with that I would also place quality representation of corals.

Let's be honest some of the vendors here are GREAT; while others simply give me a headache every time I read their "sale" threads. Buy buy buy; super rare. Ultra colored etc...

I joined R2R because I wanted to share my knowledge and help others along in this hobby. I feel that many of the top posting vendors don't deserve any recognition for their over priced, photoshopped, chop shop approach to selling. Why as a business/community are these vendors allowed to advertise here? Maybe I'm incorrect, but it seems a bit backwards to have irresponsible vendors being touted as preferred choices for purchasing livestock.

There is a vendor that has sold over 15k(guessing; might be higher) in merchandise without delivering a single item. In any other business the consumers would have lawyered up and a full on lawsuit would be in the works. But the vendor is allowed to still maintain their sponsor status, and critics are censured by staff.

We all make our own choices on who to buy from, and what to buy; but I feel R2R has a greater responsibility to it's members then to accept sponsorship money from just about any business willing to post the latest and greatest.

I would like to hear some ideas on what can be done to improve the system and gear it more toward ethical, and responsible reefkeeping.

Thank you R2R

Brian

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

I feel like it is very difficult to create this list unless it is anonymous but then you run the risk of someone repetitively posting bad comments without making purchases. I myself don't give negative feedback because I feel like its very hard to come across constructively. I choose to express my feedback with my purchases and only support the companies I feel are ethical and responsible.

One thing I want to add is I do feel there should be more accountability for vendors who sell and ship coral frags that are not properly healed. In most cases these coral frags do not do well after another round of shipping and acclimation. I would like to see more corals that are totally healed.

 

[luke33]

You should have read the new vulgarity rule, better edit quick man!

 

[secretreefer]

:crossedlips::crossedlips:

 

[FishLipz]

I see your point, but as a consumer we should be researching our own purchases. If people keep going back to a business than they must be doing something good for the customer. I find it hard to believe that a vendor would continue to sponsor if they were not getting sales in return.
That being said, there is a place for vendor feedback and negative feedback is left as long as it's done in a respectful manner and people don't pile into a feeding frenzy. I for one, read these and take them to heart and they have persuaded me to not do business with some vendors.
As far as the hype.....well.....that's sales. They pay for the space and I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use it as they see fit. There are many people on here that share your feelings about it, but I don't fault the vendors for being salesmen. Sad to say it, but if it's not somebody's cup of tea....skip it.
Without the sponsors, this site isn't going to be what it is. It takes more than the few paid members to cover the costs of maintaining it I'm sure. Also, the giveaways are done at vendors expense. In the end, if a sponsor is not appealing to the masses here, then sales will dry up and they will move on. More than a few have in the past for various reasons.
I do see what your saying, but I think it's a double edge sword. We need the vendors and they need us. if one of us decides to take our ball and go home, than I guess it'll be game over

 

[Madreef]

You should have read the new vulgarity rule, better edit quick man!

I did read it. There was a single word in my post that was censored automatically. I don't think my post is part of the problem that the new rule applied to.

I have removed the word that was censored in my post.

 

[sreefer]

Trust me people here will defend vendors for whatever they do good or bad. They love being rip off. I'm with you.

I feel like just about any business can be a sponsor here on R2R. As a community shouldn't we be doing more to promote good husbandry practices? Along with that I would also place quality representation of corals.

Let's be honest some of the vendors here are GREAT; while others simply give me a headache every time I read their "sale" threads. Buy buy buy; super rare. Ultra colored etc...

I joined R2R because I wanted to share my knowledge and help others along in this hobby. I feel that many of the top posting vendors don't deserve any recognition for their over priced, photoshopped, chop shop approach to selling. Why as a business/community are these vendors allowed to advertise here? Maybe I'm incorrect, but it seems a bit backwards to have irresponsible vendors being touted as preferred choices for purchasing livestock.

There is a vendor that has sold over 15k(guessing; might be higher) in merchandise without delivering a single item. In any other business the consumers would have lawyered up and a full on lawsuit would be in the works. But the vendor is allowed to still maintain their sponsor status, and critics are censured by staff.

We all make our own choices on who to buy from, and what to buy; but I feel R2R has a greater responsibility to it's members then to accept sponsorship money from just about any business willing to post the latest and greatest.

I would like to hear some ideas on what can be done to improve the system and gear it more toward ethical, and responsible reefkeeping.

Thank you R2R

Brian

 

[returnofsid]

In this hobby, all vendors rely heavily on word of mouth. If a vendor is not living up to certain expectations, they won't last long. Any vendor, sponsor or not, who doesn't practice decent business ethics, won't be a vendor, long term. Naturally, their own business practices and their reef husbandry will weed the poor ones out.

 

[returnofsid]

As far as "critics being censured by staff," that is completely inaccurate. We have a Vendor Feedback forum in place. There are specific rules regarding how that forum is to be used. When it's used in ways contrary to the rules, action is taken. That is not censuring.

 

[soccerbag]

We, as hobbyists, have a stake in this game as well. There are vendors that I deal with and others that I won't deal with. I do my research before purchasing and take "some" of the responsibility if something goes wrong with a purchase. We, as a mod team, do everything we can to protect our members (both paying members and non-paying members alike). Keep in mind that the the sponsors here on R2R pay good money to sponsor our site. In return, they are welcome to advertise anyway they would like. No different from a paying sponsor of a football game. As long as they are within the rules and regulations of the community here, they can advertise freely. I think a lot of reefers forget that without these sponsors, there would be no voice or forum for you to post this type of thread in. It would not exist. So I am very thankful that they are here. Sponsors who do not follow the rules or make bad business decisions, are not here long-term. That's business. Understand that a business that does not advertise in this day and age - dies.

If you don't like the titles of threads, hyping of corals, or particular business practices, you have the choice of NOT opening the thread. That's the beauty of this forum (and others). You can be very selective in what you read. You are entitled to your opinion and voice as well - that is another beautiful thing about online forums. You mentioned that you joined R2R in order to help others in the reefing community. That's exactly why I joined. And if I don't like the name of a thread, I can choose not to open it. I am all for feedback on the site and the Mod team asks for feedback quite often in the forums here. It is one thing to list a lot of complaints, and another to list some productive, realistic solutions. I did not see any of those in the initial post. We would welcome ideas of how you guys feel the site could be better. I can pick just about anything apart within a couple of minutes as nothing in this online world is (or ever will be) perfect. However, when I have an issue, I try and come up with a solution. That is how R2R, as a community, will improve in the long run.

 

[Reef Pets]

Brian,
Being a sponsor on R2R for many years maybe I can help out. Heck, for all I know you might be referring to me as one of the bad vendors..

I feel like just about any business can be a sponsor here on R2R. As a community shouldn't we be doing more to promote good husbandry practices? Along with that I would also place quality representation of corals.
Its hard to tell exactly what a business is like without them being a sponsor first. Of course Rev and the crew could do some searching around to get information before allowing a business to become a sponsor but sometimes those searches can be very misleading. Over the past couple of years I have seen MANY vendors come and go. If you follow their posts and replies from buyers you can see right away that they won't make it long.

Let's be honest some of the vendors here are GREAT; while others simply give me a headache every time I read their "sale" threads. Buy buy buy; super rare. Ultra colored etc...
Im not sure that it would be the right thing to do by posting the amount that vendors pay to advertise therefore I think its best not to. But, I will tel you that many people pay less for their car per month than what a vendor pays to advertise here on R2R. With that being said every vendor has to promote and hype their sales to justify sponsoring. Without sales their is no business to promote and vise versa.

I joined R2R because I wanted to share my knowledge and help others along in this hobby. I feel that many of the top posting vendors don't deserve any recognition for their over priced, photoshopped, chop shop approach to selling. Why as a business/community are these vendors allowed to advertise here? Maybe I'm incorrect, but it seems a bit backwards to have irresponsible vendors being touted as preferred choices for purchasing livestock.
There is plenty of knowledge to be shared here. As for deserving recognition thats an opinion. Some people love the coral that I have to offer while others have no interest but thats the same with nearly everything in life. Many businesses offer the same product but what you choose is a preference. While I like Walmart you may like Target

There is a vendor that has sold over 15k(guessing; might be higher) in merchandise without delivering a single item. In any other business the consumers would have lawyered up and a full on lawsuit would be in the works. But the vendor is allowed to still maintain their sponsor status, and critics are censured by staff.
Thats just a bad situation and hopefully its being worked on but should not reflect on other vendors.

We all make our own choices on who to buy from, and what to buy; but I feel R2R has a greater responsibility to it's members then to accept sponsorship money from just about any business willing to post the latest and greatest.
If you visit R2R often and pay attention to the vendors section you will notice that the get weeded out often!

I would like to hear some ideas on what can be done to improve the system and gear it more toward ethical, and responsible reefkeeping.

Thank you R2R

Brian

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

This thread is going to go no where fast. Us as consumers are responsible for doing our homework on who we buy from whether it be coral, cameras, food, or whatever. As far as R2R goes we do not censor members but we will not allow for conversation that starts flaming and out of control topics. Also we have banned and revoked sponsors in the past and if we find it necessary will do it again.