Ressurecting the refugium

[TJ's Reef]

Yeah, the coralline kinda goes with the territory...I think the best refugia benefit from slower water movement into and out of them to allow greater "processing time" for the animals inside to do their magic...

-Scott

Hey Scott, one of the very few times I disagree with you here.... you know how 'Great Minds' so often think alike... lol Will explain it this way, I've seen this written and heard it spoken countless times before on having a slow flow through refugiums to allow time for the Macro or DSB or even Skimmer to process nutrients from the water column and as far as my Biology knowledge goes this is a false statement because Macro Algae and Bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic do not hunt down their food like Lions after Antelope but absorb it through their cellular membrane making water speed (within reason) a non issue. So as for Macro Algae this means the cleaner their surface the better the transfer and why we see the largest concentration of Macro on the reef in the Tidal Splash Zone along the shore or even Back Reef Slope. There are certainly Macro's in the silted Lagoon as well especially the deep rooted Caulerpa family but the healthiest are from much more turbid waters. For the past 20+ years I have ran high-flow to ultra high-flow Sump/Fuge setups in my systems with great success and have kept many species of Macros thriving that would not tolerate slower-flow designs. These systems have also had tremendous populations of Pods, Snails, Worms etc... and even a few baby fish to survive from spawning adults in the DT (recently 6 Bangaii Cardinals). I have approximately 1000+ gph going through my sump/fuge and also run a Hydor K2 for extra flow within the fuge section. Over the years I have seen many problematic systems with slow-flow sumps that are nearly stagnant pools full of Cyano and dying Macro Algae and IMO more of a detriment to the overall system not of any benefit.

Pic below is my sump/fuge setup from yesterday that I took and posted for another thread, not real 'Purdy' but gets the job done... lol

Cheers, Todd

 

[Eienna]

I imagine there's a balance there...as with anything.

 

[uniquecorals]

Hey Scott, one of the very few times I disagree with you here.... you know how 'Great Minds' so often think alike... lol Will explain it this way, I've seen this written and heard it spoken countless times before on having a slow flow through refugiums to allow time for the Macro or DSB or even Skimmer to process nutrients from the water column and as far as my Biology knowledge goes this is a false statement because Macro Algae and Bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic do not hunt down their food like Lions after Antelope but absorb it through their cellular membrane making water speed (within reason) a non issue. So as for Macro Algae this means the cleaner their surface the better the transfer and why we see the largest concentration of Macro on the reef in the Tidal Splash Zone along the shore or even Back Reef Slope. There are certainly Macro's in the silted Lagoon as well especially the deep rooted Caulerpa family but the healthiest are from much more turbid waters. For the past 20+ years I have ran high-flow to ultra high-flow Sump/Fuge setups in my systems with great success and have kept many species of Macros thriving that would not tolerate slower-flow designs. These systems have also had tremendous populations of Pods, Snails, Worms etc... and even a few baby fish to survive from spawning adults in the DT (recently 6 Bangaii Cardinals). I have approximately 1000+ gph going through my sump/fuge and also run a Hydor K2 for extra flow within the fuge section. Over the years I have seen many problematic systems with slow-flow sumps that are nearly stagnant pools full of Cyano and dying Macro Algae and IMO more of a detriment to the overall system not of any benefit.

Pic below is my sump/fuge setup from yesterday that I took and posted for another thread, not real 'Purdy' but gets the job done... lol



Cheers, Todd

Hey Todd,

Actually, I don't disagree with your opinion on this one. I should have clarified my rather generalized statement! I actually wasn't referring specifically to macro algae, which , as you correctly point out, don't depend on flow for nutrient uptake. I think the point that I was trying to make is that there are other life forms in a refugium, such as micro and macro-detritovores (amphipods, copepods, starfish, planktonic life, etc.), and they are either indifferent to, or prefer slightly reduced flow. I think that you're right, decent flow through a refugium is fine. I do think that wicked flow, similar to what you'd send through the display system, is too much for many of these creatures in a confined space, especially with sand and such in the mix. That being said, I certainly don't recommend a near stagnant flow, as some authors have suggested. As Einna points out- there is a happy medium!

Now, I'm thinking of how cool it would be to try an ultra high flow refugium with stuff like Gorgonians, Sea Fans, and hardy macro algae...That could be interesting!

Dang, now look what you've done...

-Scott

 

[pgravis]

I've thought about including some softies (Xenia, Kenya trees) in my fuge. I like the idea of the gorgonians too. Maybe I'll give it a try. My fuge gets a good amount of flow right now.

 

[uniquecorals]

I've thought about including some softies (Xenia, Kenya trees) in my fuge. I like the idea of the gorgonians too. Maybe I'll give it a try. My fuge gets a good amount of flow right now.

Well, Xenia do uptake nutrients...and when you harvest them, you are essentially exporting nutrients permanently out of your system...

 

[Eienna]

Xenia like a lot of nutrients, from what I've heard....

 

[$pikes_{air]

I have a 60 gallon tank set up as an LPS tank under my display. I originally intended to make this a refugium but after having problems keeping lps under my halides I decided to turn the refugium into my lps display. I have since gotten a 50 gallon cube that I plan to move my lps pieces over to. Funny that I came across this thread, I didn't know what I was going to do with the extra tank, but now I do. Great write up Scott, and by the way, that Golden Angel I got from Unique a couple weeks back is doing great, when you guys have another in stock I plan on getting it to keep mine company.

 

[Eienna]

I have a 60 gallon tank set up as an LPS tank under my display. I originally intended to make this a refugium but after having problems keeping lps under my halides I decided to turn the refugium into my lps display. I have since gotten a 50 gallon cube that I plan to move my lps pieces over to. Funny that I came across this thread, I didn't know what I was going to do with the extra tank, but now I do. Great write up Scott, and by the way, that Golden Angel I got from Unique a couple weeks back is doing great, when you guys have another in stock I plan on getting it to keep mine company.

Don't. Centropyge angels generally do not do well in multiples unless your tank is very large. Most likely it would be seen as an intruder, not a companion.

 

[$pikes_{air]

I think it all depends on the fish, I try not to generalize fish personalities because they all have singular tendencies. I'm housing a pair of potters angels right now who love each other. I think once I am ready to relocate the tank I'll add both goldens together and hope for the best as I did with my potters. But thanks for the info.

 

[kingator]

Hey Scott, one of the very few times I disagree with you here.... you know how 'Great Minds' so often think alike... lol Will explain it this way, I've seen this written and heard it spoken countless times before on having a slow flow through refugiums to allow time for the Macro or DSB or even Skimmer to process nutrients from the water column and as far as my Biology knowledge goes this is a false statement because Macro Algae and Bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic do not hunt down their food like Lions after Antelope but absorb it through their cellular membrane making water speed (within reason) a non issue. So as for Macro Algae this means the cleaner their surface the better the transfer and why we see the largest concentration of Macro on the reef in the Tidal Splash Zone along the shore or even Back Reef Slope. There are certainly Macro's in the silted Lagoon as well especially the deep rooted Caulerpa family but the healthiest are from much more turbid waters. For the past 20+ years I have ran high-flow to ultra high-flow Sump/Fuge setups in my systems with great success and have kept many species of Macros thriving that would not tolerate slower-flow designs. These systems have also had tremendous populations of Pods, Snails, Worms etc... and even a few baby fish to survive from spawning adults in the DT (recently 6 Bangaii Cardinals). I have approximately 1000+ gph going through my sump/fuge and also run a Hydor K2 for extra flow within the fuge section. Over the years I have seen many problematic systems with slow-flow sumps that are nearly stagnant pools full of Cyano and dying Macro Algae and IMO more of a detriment to the overall system not of any benefit.

Pic below is my sump/fuge setup from yesterday that I took and posted for another thread, not real 'Purdy' but gets the job done... lol



Cheers, Todd

great write up here also.

 

[Eienna]

I think it all depends on the fish, I try not to generalize fish personalities because they all have singular tendencies. I'm housing a pair of potters angels right now who love each other. I think once I am ready to relocate the tank I'll add both goldens together and hope for the best as I did with my potters. But thanks for the info.

well, if they pair up you're golden, but you'd have to end up with a male and a female...

 

[Scopas Tang]

What are the best snails to have in refugiums?

 

[uniquecorals]

What are the best snails to have in refugiums?

An interesting question, because thee is no real correct answer! I guess the best one is the snail that is best suited to the environment that you're providing them!

-Scott