Restarting my tank

[Misha]

Hi. I'm going to restart my tank. The reason why is vermetid snails, aiptasia and a very stubborn algae that I've been fighting for a long time. I'm going to buy new rock and hope I can clean the corals

Now my question is: what's the best approach to clean the corals and cycling the new rock?

 

[shakacuz]

a big bowl filled with tank water and iodine, followed by taking each coral out and scrubbing the frag with a tooth brush (firm) and injecting hydrogen peroxide onto the exposed frag with a syringe

 

[Misha]

For the rocks I'm thinking about cycling in a brute trash can for some time with added bacteria. But I can't find a good one (that can be delivered in Europe) Fritz, Dr.tims, instant ocean and microbacter can't be bought here.

 

[brandon429]

those are 100% guaranteed to come right back as you re stock new frags, because nobody has frags free of those hitchers unless you buy very very select corals produced in clean systems, so rare I'm not sure what business provides that option. no pet store can.

vermitids are 100% guaranteed to come right back, can't be avoided, deal with the current ones.

same with algae, your reefing environment selects for it as the tank sits. that part isn't changing with new rocks/dinos are likely in your current plan

you won't have a practiced internal means of controlling algae or any invasion with this plan, you should fix your current reef and keep the microorganism base that you've earned on live rocks preventing you from getting dinos that lasts 8 months straight.

aiptasia has a way to be controlled right now on the current rocks/surgical ablation not gluing not boiling not any animal...refusal to apply that control method simply means once they get in again/same takeover. a do over cannot help, it's crucial to fix your issues as they sit now because your stocking sources aren't changing and your internal control methods aren't changing-u need to apply known internal controls for those annoyances. Verms don't count, you're getting those no matter what.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Yeah don't be so quick to hit the eject button don't buy into the no hitchhiker fad, those are manageable I have terrible vermited that grow through my corals, lol. honestly, reboots are sometimes worse and you end up back in the same boat months later anyway, are you dismantling the plumbing too thats where they love to survive.

 

[brandon429]

because of vermitids, I now have plating monti's that are growing branches like sps/the verm tube gives new substrate for the anterling of formerly flat monti


and they grow up though my favia, which then creeps up the verm tube to create a projection growth just the same. they're not that bad in my opinion. I know of no known way to actually beat them across 10 reefs, they're that suited to where corals belong. I know of some luck runs posted, nothing in pattern.


post a pic of this tank's rock Ill post back a matching job we did before and after on the rip clean approach. keeps your same rock, does not use bottle bacteria, is surgical takedown cleaning + reassembly as skip cycle your current setup.

we kick out the aiptasia, and algae, rinse out cloudy waste-filled sand, you'll be keeping the verms lol but will have a shiny new looking reef all off your current rock. avoiding this work practice ability simply means start overs will be required bi annually.

 

[Spare time]

those are 100% guaranteed to come right back as you re stock new frags, because nobody has frags free of those hitchers unless you buy very very select corals produced in clean systems, so rare I'm not sure what business provides that option. no pet store can.

vermitids are 100% guaranteed to come right back, can't be avoided, deal with the current ones.

same with algae, your reefing environment selects for it as the tank sits. that part isn't changing with new rocks/dinos are likely in your current plan

you won't have a practiced internal means of controlling algae or any invasion with this plan, you should fix your current reef and keep the microorganism base that you've earned on live rocks preventing you from getting dinos that lasts 8 months straight.

aiptasia has a way to be controlled right now on the current rocks/surgical ablation not gluing not boiling not any animal...refusal to apply that control method simply means once they get in again/same takeover. a do over cannot help, it's crucial to fix your issues as they sit now because your stocking sources aren't changing and your internal control methods aren't changing-u need to apply known internal controls for those annoyances. Verms don't count, you're getting those no matter what.

What do you mean you can't get frags free of that? That's just not true. You can also prevent them from entering the tank even if they come from a tank with plenty of them. For reference have 0 vermatids and aiptasia in my tank.

 

[Jekyl]

those are 100% guaranteed to come right back as you re stock new frags, because nobody has frags free of those hitchers unless you buy very very select corals produced in clean systems, so rare I'm not sure what business provides that option. no pet store can.

vermitids are 100% guaranteed to come right back, can't be avoided, deal with the current ones.

same with algae, your reefing environment selects for it as the tank sits. that part isn't changing with new rocks/dinos are likely in your current plan

you won't have a practiced internal means of controlling algae or any invasion with this plan, you should fix your current reef and keep the microorganism base that you've earned on live rocks preventing you from getting dinos that lasts 8 months straight.

aiptasia has a way to be controlled right now on the current rocks/surgical ablation not gluing not boiling not any animal...refusal to apply that control method simply means once they get in again/same takeover. a do over cannot help, it's crucial to fix your issues as they sit now because your stocking sources aren't changing and your internal control methods aren't changing-u need to apply known internal controls for those annoyances. Verms don't count, you're getting those no matter what.

This

 

[Garf]

This

Have you any experience of vermitids?

 

[brandon429]

We are only interested in what works for others, if you have a link of curing verms in someone's tank, outbound, with their stocking access and their update reports on if it works, let me know Ill give it a read to see how you guided someone's complete reef stocking over 1-3 years and got no verms in the process.


What people do / claim in their home isn't the same as fulfilling outbound work requests. when I look at posts on vermitids, I sure no hope lol for others. I'm aware reef masters in their own homes can do great things, that's not said in jest either.

If everyone reefed like and had access to supplies that Paul has, the entire fish disease support/prevention/ treatment forums would die off from lack of need.

but in the reefs of res publica...reality sets in, they need the careful medical preps.

Curing verms in a few reefs outbound would be a really helpful pattern to begin for the hobby. I haven't seen a thread pull that off yet.

 

[Spare time]

We are only interested in what works for others, if you have a link of curing verms in someone's tank, outbound, with their stocking access and their update reports on if it works, let me know Ill give it a read to see how you guided someone's complete reef stocking over 1-3 years and got no verms in the process.


What people do / claim in their home isn't the same as fulfilling outbound work requests. when I look at posts on vermitids, I sure no hope lol for others. I'm aware reef masters in their own homes can do great things.

All you need it a coral QT and daily inspection as well as inspecting the corals when bought. I can write up a process of this in a thread if you'd be interested.

 

[Garf]

We are only interested in what works for others, if you have a link of curing verms in someone's tank, outbound, with their stocking access and their update reports on if it works, let me know Ill give it a read to see how you guided someone's complete reef stocking over 1-3 years and got no verms in the process.


What people do / claim in their home isn't the same as fulfilling outbound work requests. when I look at posts on vermitids, I sure no hope lol for others. I'm aware reef masters in their own homes can do great things, that's not said in jest either.

If everyone reefed and had access to supplies that Paul has, the entire fish disease support/prevention/ treatment forums would die off from lack of need.

but in the reefs of res publica...reality sets in.

And what people do / claim on the web is not always the truth, but you are aware of that. Any chance you can use the reply button, like you’ve been asked to many times, just so we know who you are being condescending to?
Richard Ross ( @Thales ) seemed to have fun with a mega lazer, on Reef Beef recently, lol

 

[Jekyl]

Have you any experience of vermitids?

I have and still do. I keep an eye out and take care of what pops up.

 

[brandon429]

Why is it that asking for pattern threads I can read to show a claim in action is like pulling teeth, folks get all bent out of shape. At least I take time to test and log my crazy claims.

If no such thread exists for outbound cures for verms we can read here as a link just say that Spare time.

Mischa it's your tank start over if you like. Notes from the field are handy though, this wasn't made up advice.

 

[Jekyl]

Bumblebee snails can help. Heard emeralds do however I haven't witnessed it myself. Other than that an ice pick, glue, and a touch of OCD can manage vermitid. As far as algae, I would never tear down a tank to rid myself. There's much simpler ways as long as patience is involved.

Edit: just saw an article that said yellow coris wrasse may also eat them.

 

[brandon429]

bumblebee snails that's neat they predate the verms. those snails do well in pico reefs too/really stand out I wouldn't mind trying two to see how they do.

 

[Smoke-Town]

I can attest to the bumblebee snails. My sps got some vermatids from a frag 6 months ago and they spread fast. Saw the web nets annoying my corals. Added 3 bumblebee snails and a week later... no nets. Just empty tubes

 

[Thales]

People seem to want tanks that take care of themselves and require no maintenance, but that seems like wanting a garden that you never have to touch. I wouldn't rip out my garden and start again because there are snails or birds in the garden.


Pests and algae are always going to pop up. Disease and parasites can always pop up. Biological controls are always going to be hit an miss. Learning to manage them seems much more prudent than starting over. Stability is key, but you can't get that if you keep restarting.

Just a caution - bumble bee snails can go after other snails that you want in the tank, espically after they eat vermitids (if they eat them at all, sometimes they don't). Which brings up another problem with biological controls - if they eat all the things you want them to eat, they then can starve, which seems uncool.

 

[Thales]

Hi. I'm going to restart my tank. The reason why is vermetid snails, aiptasia and a very stubborn algae that I've been fighting for a long time. I'm going to buy new rock and hope I can clean the corals

Now my question is: what's the best approach to clean the corals and cycling the new rock?

Only transfer living coral, no exposed skeleton, no frag plugs, and no rock - cut everything from above the attachment point. This is problematic for LPS because they have exposed skeleton.
Vermitds and aiptasia (and maybe algae) are going to be in your plumbing, sump, substrate, so you may not get the results you want by just changing the rock out.

 

[brandon429]

I'm shocked aiptasia are as hard to control for the masses, they're quite easy to control but the injections/gluing and animals-in-response still holds out as the top control method (which doesn't work for the masses it works for the lucky)

Why aiptasia has never been an issue for me, and isn't an issue in most pico reefs if we search the million threads on them: pico reefers aren't frozen in fear like large tankers are/it's due to training.

large reefers who buy a rock or a frag and get an aiptasia are literally trained to sit right there and watch them divide, only permitted incremental actions with ultimate fear understanding that one wrong move and you have 20 aiptasias

so they glue, boil, inject, buy, and the divisions never stop and the numbers increase or the keeper just sits there doing nothing the entire time (the sum takeaway from all aiptasia help threads in forums)

but if a pico reefer had an aiptasia on the side of their main rock stack, they'd go get wirecutters and simply cut that attachment point right off/the rock has a small scar on it now but no anemone tissue/ and 1 aiptasia was just eliminated permanently free, without hesitation.

I've seen pico reefers who weren't playing around shove a flathead screw driver into a recessed aiptasia in a rock hole, bore out about an inch up under and all around that anemone via sheer force of will, (real live rock is not that hard to score with steel tools) rinse out the divot, and have no aiptasias in that spot ever again.


The hardest part about aiptasia controls is getting the large tank owner to simply act on aip #1, they'll sit right there and watch it divide with no end in sight. when we can prompt them to lift out a rock, set on the counter, do mansurgery on it, aiptasias are gone in one pass. they're a non issue for pico reefers bc we don't permit them. I will shank an aiptasia into compliance.