Restricting my return pump with valve.help!

saraeelove · Jan 1, 2018

I need help.
So I’m setting up the plumbing for my 40 gallon tank. I’m upgrading my canister filter to 10gallon diy sump.

After testing the water flow today. I realized my Rio 12HF flow is tooo strong. There’s wayyyyy more return water flow than the overflow. Which ends up running the last chamber from my sump dry.

I used pvc plumbing. So I have pvc valves for the overflow and return line.

The pvc is after the return pump, so I’m concerned that if I restrict the return water with the valve it’s going to build too much pressure on the pvc return pipes or ruin the return pump. Especially since I would have to restrict the return water flow about 30-40% by turning the valve. Because of this I’m afraid I am restricting toooo much water.

So what I’m thinking is , should I buy Rio 10hf and replace the 12HF? To reduce the return water flow? Or just restrict my current return flow coming from the Rio 12HF return pump.

I know the DC pump is the recommended one . But I’m looking for something more affordable.

Current equipment:
Rio 12HF return pump,
And bubble magus 3.5 skimmer. (Not installed yet.

And my tank with stand is about 4feet high

hijinks7 · Jan 1, 2018

gate valve will be fine.. I've never seen an issue using one on AC return pumps. I had a rio once running for 5 years before a gate valve on the return.

mtfish · Jan 1, 2018

You can restrict the flow without issue. It would be the same as adding more head pressure which would be a slower flow rate.

elFloyd · Jan 1, 2018

Just make sure the valve is on the output section and not the input to the pump.

mcarroll · Jan 1, 2018

There should be nothing much wrong with restricting your current pump.

But if you can switch without a lot of bother then it will be more power-efficient to use a right-sized pump instead.

You can also save the money you'd need to spend on a valve by switching to a smaller pump. (Anything but ball valves are quite expensive, and ball valves aren't very easy to adjust....so valves work, but aren't very ideal solutions IMO.)

If you switch, I'd consider switching to a Quiet One.....very inexpensive, excellent warranty, super quiet, super efficient.

Generally speaking, I would not recommend a DC pump for return.

Fishfinder · Jan 1, 2018

If you are running your return chamber dry it sounds like you just might need to add more water to your system

You can't have more return water flow than whats going in your overflow

CircleCityBill · Jan 1, 2018

Another option is to tee off the return line (close to the pump, under water), and add a valve to tee. You can then divert flow back into the sump without adding back pressure to the pump.

Flippers4pups · Jan 1, 2018

You could always tee off the return line at the return pump and add a manifold, the waste at the end of the manifold could be returned back into the sump.

I agree with @Fishfinder as well. Sounds like you may need more water in the system if your not overflowing the DT.

Donovan Joannes · Jan 1, 2018

CircleCityBill said:
Another option is to tee off the return line (close to the pump, under water), and add a valve to tee. You can then divert flow back into the sump without adding back pressure to the pump.

This is the best option whenever you want to reduce the return flow. Your pump will thank you for doing so.

elFloyd · Jan 2, 2018

mcarroll said:
Generally speaking, I would not recommend a DC pump for return.

Why not use a DC pump got a return? I’ve done so for seven years with absolutely no problem. They are quiet, adjustable speeds, ramped start up.... and very dependable.

saraeelove · Jan 2, 2018

THank you everyone!.. does anyone recommend a pump that is affordable and quiet? I wouldn’t want to spend more than 80 dollars on it.

I just set up my pump and it’s noisy. I put a sponge under and it helped but still a little noisy.

saraeelove · Jan 2, 2018

If anything, I think I’m going to stick with the valve and same pump. I will test it out. The only issue now is that it’s still a little noisy

red13 · Jan 2, 2018

It helps reduce the noise if you use some flex tube between the pump and the PVC, not sure if you did this already. Also don't forget that when you fill the tank and the sump all the plumbing is empty, so when you start any size pump it will drain down your sump, until all the plumbing is full. You need an extra couple gallons of water when you start the system. As long as the drain lines are handling the flow you just need to add more water to the sump.

Fishfinder · Jan 2, 2018

saraeelove said:
If anything, I think I’m going to stick with the valve and same pump. I will test it out. The only issue now is that it’s still a little noisy

Before you replumb everything, did you try more water?

mcarroll · Jan 2, 2018

elFloyd said:
Why not use a DC pump got a return? I’ve done so for seven years with absolutely no problem. They are quiet, adjustable speeds, ramped start up.... and very dependable.

Certainly fine that you did and I'm glad it's still working.

Since you asked, the reasons would be: cost, predicted reliability issues (you're somewhat lucky) and lack of need for any of those extra features for the return application.

Once you calculate the pump you need to get the correct flow for your system, all you need is for the pump to turn on and keep running. Forever.

Reliability is the only real concern for a return pump IMO.

(Although it's also advisable to keep a spare return pump on hand....so being affordable isn't a bad feature to have too. "Affordable" is very relative though.

)

Chef Tommy · Jan 2, 2018

If you have too much flow maybe add a reactor. Here is my plumbing, I have a DC pump & don't really need the valve but it could always come in handy one day.

Donovan Joannes · Jan 2, 2018

Just tee-off the return pipe/hose near the pump output, fix a gate valve and you are done. Opening the valve more will reduce the flow (more back flow into the sump) without putting pressure on the pump. Easy solution without breaking the bank. Just my 2 cents

ksed · Jan 2, 2018

@mcarroll I was looking at the Quiet one as well but notice so, so reviews on BRS?

mcarroll · Jan 2, 2018

Can't speak for other folks' reviews.

The Quiet One is a Sicce design (see Sicce's Pro series) that used to be made in Italy and now (for the last 5 years maybe?) is made in China.

Pump motor, price as well as warranty on the motor and impeller ALL did not change with the move to China.

However they supposedly started using higher-quality neodymium magnets for the impeller with the switch to China, since Nd is so cheap there AND apparently better for the application.

For the price you can also afford the backup pump you ought to have on hand anyway. Don't underestimate this point, IMO.

I can also tell you I've been using them....before and after the switch to China.

The Chinese one did quit working, but only after about 5 straight years of dead-silent, problem-free service with NO off time and NO cleaning. I finally took it offline to clean, and it just wouldn't start back up. Not sure what happened, to be honest.

I never mistreaded the Italian model like that, but its cord insulation pulled loose of the motor housing – seemingly due to shrinkage. (I still use it.)

No pump is perfect forever. And the price is very hard to beat without sacrificing pump quality.

Mag, Eheim and Sicce are my other fav's.

(Though I don't have a Sicce-branded pump....I do have the rest.)

saraeelove · Jan 3, 2018

red13 said:
It helps reduce the noise if you use some flex tube between the pump and the PVC, not sure if you did this already. Also don't forget that when you fill the tank and the sump all the plumbing is empty, so when you start any size pump it will drain down your sump, until all the plumbing is full. You need an extra couple gallons of water when you start the system. As long as the drain lines are handling the flow you just need to add more water to the sump.

THank you!!!