Results of Reef Roids?

[at11ok]

So i just got reef roids and spot fed them for the first time. Im wondering if anyone can tell me their experiences with reef roids? best techiques to reef them? how long until you saw results? if there are any negative results? Anyone willing to show before and afters?

 

[C. Eymann]

@jda
BTW, You should get a hold of all the coral biologists that use suspended food supplements in their captive breeding/ growout systems for restoration and raising of certian genotypes of species, esp ones focused on species like A. palmata, A. cervicornis and A. prolifera that are resilient to ocean acidification and other environmental stressors- you should tell them that they are simply wasting their time/ resources using suspended coral foods as its just a fad and serves no benefit.

You know, because as a self proclaimed "master reefkeeper" like yourself in CO with a 240g reef in your basement says so, with no sources to back up said claims.

 

[Big E]

Oooh ouch !

Heater bursting pretty much killed my system,

Also when spending 40+ hrs a week taking care of 25 different systems, I dont have much incentive to put much effort in mine on my free time and have started dismantling it

I oversee testing, dosing, coral food additions and maintenance to all of those "work" systems with the help of a great team of people that I work with.
I practice what I preach in every one of them
Point is, there is published literature and peer reviewed studies that go against a lot of what you spew on here about coral foods in captive systems.

Try again

Do you have any links to all these peer review studies? I'd like to read them. One that I read that had Reefroids(RR) in the study had RR having the least impact. I believe that natural sea water changes had the highest impact, which tells me that it's more about bacteria being the food source and coral foods broken down just add nutrients to the system and hence higher bacteria growth that the corals can eat.

So, it's more indirect..........I doubt Acros eat the actual food.

My biggest problems with most of those lab type studies is that there is no fish population and on top of that I doubt they ever have just regular fish food as one of the options to test.

When I have used RR in the past I only use it to raise P04 in situations where P04 has bottomed out. Once I had consistent readings I stopped using it as it just ends up as a pollutant and not a benefit.

These powdered coral foods have been around for two plus decades and aren't anything that is special. The first I remember was Golden Pearls and they just did what many do now...........raise P04 and that's it.

I've been experimenting with dosing bacteria as a food source for the last 11 months and the results have been very positive. The great thing with them is that they are easy to control and don't add nutrients to the system.

If one looks at the science it's all about the coral's symbiotic bacteria eating other microbes/bacteria. This has been known for years as well.

 

[C. Eymann]

Do you have any links to all these peer review studies? I'd like to read them. One that I read that had Reefroids(RR) in the study had RR having the least impact. I believe that natural sea water changes had the highest impact, which tells me that it's more about bacteria being the food source and coral foods broken down just add nutrients to the system and hence higher bacteria growth that the corals can eat.

So, it's more indirect..........I doubt Acros eat the actual food.

My biggest problems with most of those lab type studies is that there is no fish population and on top of that I doubt they ever have just regular fish food as one of the options to test.

When I have used RR in the past I only use it to raise P04 in situations where P04 has bottomed out. Once I had consistent readings I stopped using it as it just ends up as a pollutant and not a benefit.

These powdered coral foods have been around for two plus decades and aren't anything that is special. The first I remember was Golden Pearls and they just did what many do now...........raise P04 and that's it.

I've been experimenting with dosing bacteria as a food source for the last 11 months and the results have been very positive. The great thing with them is that they are easy to control and don't add nutrients to the system.

If one looks at the science it's all about the coral's symbiotic bacteria eating other microbes/bacteria. This has been known for years as well.

I actually do agree that acropora/ many corals feed heavily on bacteria, which is why powder food wise I primarily use benepets and am a big fan of carbon dosing. I did state above that Reef Roids was definitely not an ideal source of food for acropora.

However, in the study which I believe you are referring to, the experiment tanks and controls were semi closed systems, N/P was kept consistent and the non RAW systems were fine micron filtered which would limit suspended bacteria flocculant in the non RAW systems.
All the studies I have read point to Acropora absolutely being capable of capturing and utilizing the proper sized food items and not strictly just bacteria.


this is a post I made last time JDA was baselessly slamming coral foods. It contains links to multiple studies on the subject

Post in thread 'Caught Acro eating with polyps' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/caught-acro-eating-with-polyps.830833/post-8970867

 

[ajm83]

I definitely noticed brighter colors after i started feeding. Just be careful and use it sparingly. It has the highest phosphate contents of any coral food but thats also why its one of the best. Id start with 1/8-1/4 the recommended dose once a week and make sure to monitor phosphates. Do not test phosphates within the first 3-4 days after feeding as youll get a false reading. It stays in the water column for quite some time due to how fine it is. Its best to feed right before a water change, and i recommend direct feeding while the pumps are off.

Just wondering - what makes you think that's a false reading?

 

[Bombschell]

I have been using it very sparingly for approx. 2.5 months, once a week, we have seen good results. I don't know how anyone else does it, but I have a very tiny measuring spoon (not even sure of the size) I use 2 scoops of the RR mixed with just enough tank water to be able to pick it up with a pipette. I keep it very thick then target feed the individual polyps of our Acan, hammer, fungia, and both mouths of our frog spawn. The small amount of residue left in the bottom of the jar I will use to dust our finger leather, zoas, and acrapora. I do not broadcast it into the tank as I feel like that it just becomes another pollutant and feed for the uglies, but that is just my opinion. We have seen better color and extension from all of the lps and within a few weeks the acan started making several new polyps, I will try and add some pics later. Having said all of that whatever of "paste" that is not taken up by the coral or cleaned up by the shrimp, etc.. I suck up and dispose of.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Just wondering - what makes you think that's a false reading?

I mean i guess its not technically a false reading as there would be a ton of available phosphates in the water but its not an accurate representation of the natural level in the tank. For example in my frag tank the phosphates bottomed out so i fed reef roids and the day after feeding ill get readings as high or higher than 0.40 up from 0.00 and after a few days itll settle back down to below 0.10 and then stay there for a week and slowly decrease til the next feeding.

 

[jda]

I don't know how many times that I can say this, if I was running a coral farm, breeding facility or restoration farm, then I would have a different goals and methods to achieve them. I have a fully functioning reef tank with a complete (at least as much as can be expected in captivity) ecosystem and these supplements do not do anything. I cannot help anybody if they think that a a vendor, scientist, etc. tank is the same as a hobbyist reef tank. I have massive amounts of ammonia and all kinds of phosphates/phosphorous available for all of my corals from just feeding tons of fish.

This is the SPS forum at a reef tank site, not coral restoration central. I'll bet those scientists are smart enough to know the difference between an apple and a Volkswagen and would have different methods for a real reef tank too. If you are going to climb onto their backs in your posts, get on their level and understand the difference...

Search around for some of flampton posts. He is a bacteriologist and has posted before about acropora eating bacteria through the slime coat and able to assimilate nearly all of the energy and building blocks without having to waste much energy digesting it - paraphrasing. The more that I dug into this, they lose a math game with other surfaces in the tank until they get larger - just have less surface area as frags. Too much flow can also form a shield around the coral and limit the new water that makes contact, but never been able to find the right amount of flow.

For the phosphates, they bind to aragonite, but it takes a bit of time. That .40 then settling back out at .10 is the aragonite binding to equilibrium with the rock and sand over a few days. It can unbind if you lower the water level concentration. You won't get phosphate readings from RR until something breaks it down... waterborne or surface bacteria most likely.

 

[at11ok]

I’m a bit confused I thought phosphates and ammonia were supposed to be 0?

 

[Duncan62]

So i just got reef roids and spot fed them for the first time. Im wondering if anyone can tell me their experiences with reef roids? best techiques to reef them? how long until you saw results? if there are any negative results? Anyone willing to show before and afters?

Acans grow faster. All the hitchhikers in your tank love it. I mix it with more substantial stuff for nems and larger lobos, trachys and others. Helps keep some phosphate and nitrate in your system.

 

[Bombschell]

I’m a bit confused I thought phosphates and ammonia were supposed to be 0?

You don't want zero phosphates, but you don't want the very high either. There of course is debate on how much you want and don't want. I am shooting for about .5ppm in my tank.

 

[at11ok]

You don't want zero phosphates, but you don't want the very high either. There of course is debate on how much you want and don't want. I am shooting for about .5ppm in my tank.

I’m a little new to reef keeping and I’m so confused about the permeters I was told that nitrite nitrate phosphate and ammonia were all supposed to be zero but as I got more into the hobby I’ve heard people say and a little nitrates were good for the coral and now phosphates lol. I understand that coral like those nutrients now it’s just weird how at first people say those perameters HAVE to be 0 and now hear it’s better to have a little of those

 

[Bombschell]

I am with you buddy. This is my first "Reef" tank. Have had salty and freshy tanks off and on for 20+ years, but there is a definite learning curve here. I also tried keeping my nitrate and everything else at or near zero and that caused other issues that I am dealing with slowly. In a nano bad happens fast, but it seems like fixing it takes a long time. A lot of research and talking to people who know better than me pointed out I was most likely skimming so much I was pulling the beneficial things out of the water causing blooms of nasty stuff and some poor coral health. After removing the skimmer and building my bacteria load back up things are starting to look better.

 

[BiggestE22]

So i just got reef roids and spot fed them for the first time. Im wondering if anyone can tell me their experiences with reef roids? best techiques to reef them? how long until you saw results? if there are any negative results? Anyone willing to show before and afters?

Algae bloom

 

[jda]

You do want ammonia, nitrite at zero to make sure that you are at the end of your first part of the nitrogen cycle, but it is way more complex than this. When your tank gets stable for coral, then your focus shifts...

Like all sugars and building blocks in life, you need some, but too many can be a problem. You need ammonia to give coral nitrogen since most cannot use nitrate directly without expending a good amount of energy to convert - don't go with the mob on here who think that higher N levels are coral food. If you have too much ammonia, then fish gills can rot and things can suffer. ...so you want to test near zero ammonia on a test kit (even though most of them are junk), but feed your fish a lot so that they are always producing waste. Nitrate is not easily used by most SPS (we are in the SPS forum) and the energy needed would be bad for SPS on the brink or not thriving.

Same is kinda true with P, except it is more complex. P comes in many forms... organic, inorganic, phosphate, phosphorous... your test kit will test for one kind but fish waste will be several different kinds and nobody really know what is more efficient for corals to use. In the end, you need a trace of P.

Heavy import and heavy export... feed the fish a lot to keep lots of available N and P and then export a bunch to keep residual N and P levels relatively low. Availability > residual. People can test for residual, but the results are fools gold. I only test to make sure that I have a trace and also that they are not climbing.

 

[at11ok]

You do want ammonia, nitrite at zero to make sure that you are at the end of your first part of the nitrogen cycle, but it is way more complex than this. When your tank gets stable for coral, then your focus shifts...

Like all sugars and building blocks in life, you need some, but too many can be a problem. You need ammonia to give coral nitrogen since most cannot use nitrate directly without expending a good amount of energy to convert - don't go with the mob on here who think that higher N levels are coral food. If you have too much ammonia, then fish gills can rot and things can suffer. ...so you want to test near zero ammonia on a test kit (even though most of them are junk), but feed your fish a lot so that they are always producing waste. Nitrate is not easily used by most SPS (we are in the SPS forum) and the energy needed would be bad for SPS on the brink or not thriving.

Same is kinda true with P, except it is more complex. P comes in many forms... organic, inorganic, phosphate, phosphorous... your test kit will test for one kind but fish waste will be several different kinds and nobody really know what is more efficient for corals to use. In the end, you need a trace of P.

Heavy import and heavy export... feed the fish a lot to keep lots of available N and P and then export a bunch to keep residual N and P levels relatively low. Availability > residual. People can test for residual, but the results are fools gold. I only test to make sure that I have a trace and also that they are not climbing.

When I last tested I had 0.25 phosphates, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 40 nitrates which I reduced to 20. How do I get ammonia in my tank safely?

 

[jda]

You feed your fish. If your tank is new, then you ramp this up since you will need nitrifying bacteria to form to be able to consume this stuff or else you can have another cycle. I see 09/2021 start date, so if your tank is new then go slow building up your feedings, but if it is mature, then you can feed them quite well and the bacterial populations will quickly grow to equilibrium. Once you have coralline growing, then you are all set for sure, but you can be all set before this too.

 

[at11ok]

You feed your fish. If your tank is new, then you ramp this up since you will need nitrifying bacteria to form to be able to consume this stuff or else you can have another cycle. I see 09/2021 start date, so if your tank is new then go slow building up your feedings, but if it is mature, then you can feed them quite well and the bacterial populations will quickly grow to equilibrium. Once you have coralline growing, then you are all set for sure, but you can be all set before this too.

I did start my tank in September of this year but I guess I’m doing something right because I already have coralline forming in multiple places places.

 

[Billldg]

I use Reef Roids soaked in KZ Amino's. I would recommend turning off all flow pumps at least and spot feed the corals with a turkey baster. A couple of my corals as they are feeding.

 

[at11ok]

I use Reef Roids soaked in KZ Amino's. I would recommend turning off all flow pumps at least and spot feed the corals with a turkey baster. A couple of my corals as they are feeding.

very nice I just bought a coral feeder which is way thinner which I like so it doesn’t shoot out too much at once. I think I might try the amino thing as I’ve a few post about that too.

 

[Billldg]

very nice I just bought a coral feeder which is way thinner which I like so it doesn’t shoot out too much at once. I think I might try the amino thing as I’ve a few post about that too.

Thank you.

I do agree with others though, don't add to much at once. I see your N03 is at 40 and your P04 is at .25. That should be more than enough for the corals to feed on. I would test both twice a week for a few weeks to get a good understanding of the use of both from your tank and then go from there. My N03 is at 10.7 and my P04 is between .03 and .06 consistently.