Return Planning Questions: Redundancy & Reliability

mfollen · Nov 17, 2018

Hello reefers!

Long-time reefer here getting back in the hobby who needs help determining the right return pump configuration. I would really appreciate any support across any of the following three questions:

1. Varios Backups: I ideally want to run with a dc pump for quiet & controllable benefits, but specifically RO varios pumps due to reliability vs other DC pumps. But there doesn't seem to be an ideal battery backup for these pumps (I believe the icecap battery backup is not compatible) other than the UPS battery backups. Are there any backup alternatives or a recommended UPS battery backup?

2. Redundancy: I plan on using wye connectors with check valves to run two pumps parallel as I will only have one return pipe available with the Waterbox aquarium. Other than pump efficiency, are there any other issues or potential problems I should be aware of with this parallel pump setup?

3. Running two different pumps parallel for redundancy & reliability: What if I run a Varios pump parallel with a Vectra pump, which is compatible with the ecotech battery backup? I could adjust the outputs of both pumps to be close within the above described parallel wye/shutoff valve configuration. Would there be any issues or potential problems with running two different return pumps?

I know I've made this more complicated than it needs to. But redundancy & reliability are very important in my build planning. I will be in an apartment in the city and am unsure if a generator is something that I will be able to use.

Thank you SO MUCH!!!!

ndrwater · Nov 17, 2018

Either/both pumps are a good choice. No real issue with compatibility.
Personally, I hate check valves as the tend to fail over time... Usually when you least expect it. I use loc-line at the outlet of my return and have it placed so that if and when a back syphon occures, the sump can handle the overflow.
Powerheads and the like in the display are more important than cycling water through the sump. Using a battery backup for those is more important IMO. With a Vectra and MP's, this should be an issue other than how much time the backup would actually last running all of the above

theMeat · Nov 17, 2018

Check valves in saltwater tanks are useless.
Keep a second return pump on hand but not plumbed in.
Make sure you have a siphon break drilled into your return line.
. Ecotech is the only I know of that has battery backup, but there may be others

mfollen · Nov 17, 2018

Thank you for your responses!

It seems that running both Varios & Vectra return pumps parallel is doable. The reason for the check valve is for the case when a pump fails, the other pump doesn't pump to the least resistent route through the other pump and continues pumping to the tank.

Would acquiring a higher quality check valve help resolve the check valve failure issues? I'm not aware of why they fail...

With heaters in the sump and not in the display, having a backup power supply for one of the return pumps would be needed...

Any other thoughts out there??

Thank you so much everyone! I appreciate the guidance as I try to figure this all out!

LobsterOfJustice · Nov 17, 2018

The other posters don’t understand your specific need for the check valves. You have the right idea. The purpose is not to stop backflow from the tank, it’s because of you have two pumps plumbed together and if one fails, the water will pump out of the dead pump and not back up to the tank. I use this setup with a waveline and a Varios, each with their own check valve, tee’d together with a wye. I’m happy with my setup. I like to have a backup plumbed in and running, equipment fails at the worst time like when you’re out of town and not able to swap in a spare.

I only worry about battery backup on the powerheads in the tank, not on the return pump. That’s good enough for a power outage for several hours. For anything longer than that you’ll need something better than a batter backup, either a generator or an inverter to run off your car.

theMeat · Nov 17, 2018

Check valve get crud on the surfaces that seal making them useless for stopping the siphon down to sump. Vale will close, just not completely But in this situation they should suffice
Another option is a battery with an inverter of sorts. A car battery is good, a boat is better

mfollen · Nov 17, 2018

LobsterofJustice - Thanks a bunch! I'm happy to hear that this is working for you. and that it's a viable solution for me. A few questions for you:
- Do you use normal check valves with a wye?
- Do you use only one wye or do you have one wye per pump to the main return pipe?
Good point as well on the need for backup power for powerheads at the least. I'll have to check out the battery w/ inverter option for the other core life support components of the system.

TheMeat - Thank you for explaining this to me and the tip for a battery w/ inverter. I'm considering wye check valves for easy cleaning & maintenance. So hopefully that helps.

anonomous09 · Nov 18, 2018

Not to derail, but on the same topic. How about a check valve for silicone tubing? Looking to run a similar setup but my sump forces me to have one return line leaving the sump, so I need a check valve inside...

ca1ore · Nov 18, 2018

Using check valves to prevent the return water from short circuiting back down is OK, though they will create significant friction pressure. I did something like this many years ago with a surge pump and it worked OK. I used a ball check valve as I found the weight in the Y tended to get lodged open. Upsize the check valve if you go this route.

I keep a drop in replacement for my main return pump on hand, but not as an active redundant pump. I think the challenge with even something like the varios is that it’s not been around long enough to meet my reliability requirements. I need at least a decade assuming it never gets cleaned. Iwaki and PanWorld are about the only game in town to meet that standard.