Review Plumbing for Red Sea Reefer 170

[PugsAndFish]

I will be a proud owner of a Red Sea Reefer 170 soon. Since the tank does not come with a refugium, I plan to convert the ATO into a refugium. My plan is to build a manifold in which 1 channel will be used to bring water into the ATO container. Water in the refugium will simply drain into the return section or bubble trap via gravity. I am undecided what the other 2 channels will be used for but likely for GFO and carbon.

1) I've never done plumbing, so can you please review my plumbing plan? (I wrote notations in image below but am not sure if I have all pieces correct). I found a member on another forum plumb his tank in a seemingly space-saving manner, and I want to emulate his design (with 3 gate valves rather than 4).

First step is to buy the right pieces at the right sizes. Do I have the pieces written correctly? I know it's a lot so if you could even just look at the purple, I think I could deduce if the other sizes/parts are correct.

2) I also noticed this design has no unions. Unions are supposedly good. Where would you place a union?

3) Should I use soft tubing to connect the return pump (varios 4) to the barb or should that part be hard plumbed? Should I use use soft tubing to connect all of the hard plumbing to the return bulkhead or should that part be hard plumbed as well? The Red Sea is metric so using the supplied soft tubing might be easier unless someone can shed light on how I can convert metric to US.

4) Is there a specific primer/cement I should get? I of course want whatever I use to be reef safe.

5) Any other ways to do this better or do I have every notation wrong lol?


Notations are done by me in order to ask if fittings are correct. Design courtesy of @saphobros from the dwfmas forum:

 

[CDavmd]

I'll take a stab at this....

Starting from your pump- your choice as to hard plumbing or soft. Soft will give you more flexibility in moving the pump around ( and one less measure twice/cut once once location). Some say that soft plumbing will transmit less noise but with the pump you are using the noise is at a minimum so again your choice.

I notice that the design is using 3/4 inch pipe- consider using 1 inch or larger- this will allow greater flow and less head pressure.

The Ball valve on the return line is not really necessary unless you will be using it to shut off flow to the display for recirculation. I have one incorporated into my manifold so that I can shut off flow to the display, stir up the debris in the sump and auto-clean be redirecting all the flow into the socks. Other than this- there is no use for it and I would strongly advise not controlling flow to the display with this valve. You have a controllable pump which serves that purpose.

The check valve is not needed and honestly they eventually fail. You will read mixed opinions on them but in my opinion they should NEVER be used. If you set things up correctly, a power outage should not result in a overflowing your sump.

I would not soft plumb the return line. What many of us have done is employed the @Broadfield method which you can find in his build thread and the "show off your red sea reefer" thread. You need to purchase an extra barb-union from Red Sea- remove the barb portion, purchase a Slip to thread connector, wrap 15 or so turns of plumbers tape onto the threads and connect to the red sea part. @sithrico has a You tube video showing similar but employing the red sea o-ring as well.

Having the 3 gate valves off of the manifold is a good idea, giving you various options for the future. Just be careful of your measurements and spacing. I have a 425XL and setup only two due to the spacing requirements for hard plumbing my reactors. I plan on running carbon only, personally I find GFO a bit dangerous and although I have used it for years in the past, I have eliminated it from my setups in preference for more natural methods of phosphate removal. Sudden or too aggressive stripping of phosphate from the system is not good for corals and puts you at risk for dinoflagellates. In any event, you can soft plumb as in the pictured manifold or hard plumb to reactors such as shown in the video by @pelphrey (borrowed from broadfield). I chose to hard plumb two Aquamaxx XS reactors off of my manifold using 1/2 inch gate valves.

Lastly, make sure when you convert the ATO into a refugium, to drill two drainage holes. One slightly higher than the other as an emergency outflow. @SuncrestReef has nice instructions on how he setup his- you might want to look it over.

One more word of advice- ditch the red sea reefer membrane valve and replace it with a gate valve. This will give you more precise control over the flow from the display and let you dial it in to avoid noise.

Regarding unions- yes they are your friend but in your manifold I can only see two locations that I would employ them- at your pump to manifold connection which will allow easier removal of the pump for cleaning if you hard plumb. Also at your return manifold return to red sea location ( in the event you need to remove the manifold at some point), by using one at this location you will not need to unscrew the red sea part from the bulk head that can become brittle over time.

You have the parts labeled correctly. You might want to pick up some PVC straps to mount the manifold to the stand.

There are many ways to create manifolds...do some searching and look at pictures and come up with what you need and want.

Use clear PVC primer and Cement.... it will give you a cleaner look. The purple primer makes a real mess. Watch the BRS video on plumbing.

Just to give you some idea- here is my setup on the 425xl.

Good luck and remember MEASURE TWICE-CUT ONCE, DRY FIT, MARK, PRIME and GLUE

 

[PugsAndFish]

@CDavmd Thank you for taking the time to go through this. If you don't mind sparing a few more minutes, I have some follow-up questions...

1. If I were to hard plumb my return pump rather than use soft hosing to the manifolds, would the hard pvc forever be attached to the pump? I'm wondering if hard plumbing would affect resell value if I were to ever upgrade my pump or just try a new one.
2. I noticed that you have a larger system than I do. Would 1 inch pipes still be okay with my size, and if I were to use 1 inch pipes, should I reduce to 3/4inch for the actual valves/manifolds?
3. Not a question but ...good point on the ball valve. I thought about just using it because someone else did and I'd rather follow someone else's plan who has more experience. Like you, I'll likely install it just as an extra piece that can come in handy during maintenance but will leave it wide open. I'll also take out the check valve. I'm guessing Red Sea took power outages into account.
4. Not a question but ...I'll take a look into hard plumbing the portion that attaches to the bulkhead from @sithrico and @Broadfield!
5. For plumbing reactors to manifolds, I see you hard plumbed. Is the reactor now permanent? What are some natural ways of phosphate removal besides water changes? It seems like a fuge is good for just reducing nitrates?
6. Thanks for the emergency drain tip on the ATO. I'll take a look at @SuncrestReef . Any tips for how big the 3 holes (hole that brings water in, main drain, emergency drain) should be? Also how high should the hole that brings water in be - below the two drains?

And again, thanks so much for the taking the time to explain all of this!

 

[SuncrestReef]

@CDavmd
Thanks for the emergency drain tip on the ATO. I'll take a look at @SuncrestReef . Any tips for how big the 3 holes (hole that brings water in, main drain, emergency drain) should be? Also how high should the hole that brings water in be - below the two drains?

@CDavmd Thanks for the mention!

@PugsAndFish Here's a direct link to my ATO conversion since it's buried 82 posts into my build thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...eefer-xl-425-build.358990/page-5#post-4668633

I used a 3/8" bulkhead near the bottom rear of the tank for water input so it blows the water along the bottom of the tank, causing the chaeto to rotate from the bottom flow. You can see a video of the chaeto rotation here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...eefer-xl-425-build.358990/page-5#post-4711111

For the drain I used a 3/4" bulkhead about 1" from the top to avoid getting to close to the edge. I was worried getting too close might cause a crack.

I only drilled one drain and use a float switch to turn off the refugium pump if the drain is clogged and my Apex sends an alert. This has only happened twice due to stray pieces of chaeto building up on the strainer. Now I just clean the strainer about once per week and haven't had any issues with clogging.

Hope this helps.

 

[CDavmd]

If I were to hard plumb my return pump rather than use soft hosing to the manifolds, would the hard pvc forever be attached to the pump? I'm wondering if hard plumbing would affect resell value if I were to ever upgrade my pump or just try a new one.

Should not- As you can see in my setup, I have a union on the return pump that connects to my hard plumbing.

I noticed that you have a larger system than I do. Would 1 inch pipes still be okay with my size, and if I were to use 1 inch pipes, should I reduce to 3/4inch for the actual valves/manifolds?

Yes 1 inch would be fine, you will need to step it down to 3/4 inch at the red sea union since the red sea portion of the return is 3/4 inch. You can use 3/4 or 1/2 inch for your manifold valves. I used 1/2 inch.

For plumbing reactors to manifolds, I see you hard plumbed. Is the reactor now permanent? What are some natural ways of phosphate removal besides water changes? It seems like a fuge is good for just reducing nitrates?

No, I can take the reactors off of the manifold below the valve. You can also incorporate unions there if you prefer. Mine are 12 inch slip to thread so I can unscrew the reactor. Nutrient export can be accomplished in many ways. A refugium, algae turf scrubber, or as in my case an Algae reactor. Carbon dosing is another method as well. All of these methods will reduce nitrate AND phosphate.

Hope this helps.

 

[PugsAndFish]

Which is the correct fitting that attaches to the return hole of the tank?

Both of these look the same so not sure which is the right one:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-male-pipe-adapter-1-3a6c2c9231df58107434b942fa600b22.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-spigot-x-male-thread-adapter.html

 

[AcanthurusRex]

 

[SuncrestReef]

Which is the correct fitting that attaches to the return hole of the tank?

Both of these look the same so not sure which is the right one:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-male-pipe-adapter-1-3a6c2c9231df58107434b942fa600b22.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-spigot-x-male-thread-adapter.html

It depends on what you intend to connect to the other end of the adapter. You will need the 3/4" threaded end along with 14 wraps of teflon tape to fit into the Red Sea metric plumbing since it's not an exact match. The other end of the adapter can either be a male or female connection, but should also match the size of the return plumbing you intend to use. The two links you posted each convert threaded pipe to slip pipe connections, but do not convert to different sizes. Like I said, you'll need the 3/4" threads to (almost) fit the Red Sea metric threaded piece along with 14 layers of teflon tape so it doesn't leak. But the rest of your plumbing would need to be 3/4" as well if you used the adapters you posted.

I used a 3/4" threaded male to 1" slip female reducing adapter to connect to my 1" manifold plumbing: https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/3-4-x-1-sch-80-pvc-reducing-male-adapter-mpt-x-socket-836-102.html



Hope this helps.

 

[CDavmd]

It depends on what you intend to connect to the other end of the adapter. You will need the 3/4" threaded end along with 14 wraps of teflon tape to fit into the Red Sea metric plumbing since it's not an exact match. The other end of the adapter can either be a male or female connection, but should also match the size of the return plumbing you intend to use. The two links you posted each convert threaded pipe to slip pipe connections, but do not convert to different sizes. Like I said, you'll need the 3/4" threads to (almost) fit the Red Sea metric threaded piece along with 14 layers of teflon tape so it doesn't leak. But the rest of your plumbing would need to be 3/4" as well if you used the adapters you posted.

I used a 3/4" threaded male to 1" slip female reducing adapter to connect to my 1" manifold plumbing: https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/3-4-x-1-sch-80-pvc-reducing-male-adapter-mpt-x-socket-836-102.html



Hope this helps.

As stated above. I used the same- 3/4 inch threaded to 1 inch slip because I used 1 inch piping from my pump.

 

[PugsAndFish]

As for the main and emergency drains, I will keep the stock plumbing. I plan to use 3/4" tubing for the return line (so 3/4 to 3/4 should work), but just didn't know which of the 2 in the links above was the right piece because they look the same to me.

 

[SuncrestReef]

As for the main and emergency drains, I will keep the stock plumbing. I plan to use 3/4" tubing for the return line (so 3/4 to 3/4 should work), but just didn't know which of the 2 in the links above was the right piece because they look the same to me.

A Slip adapter means the pipe would fit inside the adapter.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-male-pipe-adapter-1-3a6c2c9231df58107434b942fa600b22.html

A Spigot adapter means the adapter itself is the exact outer diameter as a pipe, so it would fit inside another fitting such as a valve, union, or elbow.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-spigot-x-male-thread-adapter.html

See https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/resource-center/pvc-end-types-descriptions-and-explanations/ for more details.

 

[PugsAndFish]

A Slip adapter means the pipe would fit inside the adapter.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-male-pipe-adapter-1-3a6c2c9231df58107434b942fa600b22.html

A Spigot adapter means the adapter itself is the exact outer diameter as a pipe, so it would fit inside another fitting such as a valve, union, or elbow.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/schedule-80-spigot-x-male-thread-adapter.html

See https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/resource-center/pvc-end-types-descriptions-and-explanations/ for more details.

Ahhh..makes much more sense

 

[Coral Newbie]

I would double check you have enough space. I have the Red Sea E-170 and I can only get two manifolds and that is pushing it even with my fuge light skimmer etc. you just don’t have a lot of room in the sump area. also stick with broafield and others conversion to red seas metric piping. I with went the rout with the BRS metric to standard slip fittings and it did not go well.

Here’s my sump. You can only see one reactor as the other one is behind my DIY chato one. I just got the new Klir Filter kit that drops into your sock holder

 

[PugsAndFish]

I would double check you have enough space. I have the Red Sea E-170 and I can only get two manifolds and that is pushing it even with my fuge light skimmer etc. you just don’t have a lot of room in the sump area. also stick with broafield and others conversion to red seas metric piping. I with went the rout with the BRS metric to standard slip fittings and it did not go well.

Here’s my sump. You can only see one reactor as the other one is behind my DIY chato one. I just got the new Klir Filter kit that drops into your sock holder

I think 3 manifolds should work. The model I'm following has 4 manifolds in the 170. I want to use 1 for the refugium and the other 2 for carbon and GFO. I can use the dual reactor from BRS and install only 2 manifolds but 3 is better I suppose.

Planning to pick up the 3/4" threaded male fitting and teflon tape to use Broadfields advice along with other plumbing pieces in the next BRS sale!

 

[Schultz]

I would double check you have enough space. I have the Red Sea E-170 and I can only get two manifolds and that is pushing it even with my fuge light skimmer etc. you just don’t have a lot of room in the sump area. also stick with broafield and others conversion to red seas metric piping. I with went the rout with the BRS metric to standard slip fittings and it did not go well.

Here’s my sump. You can only see one reactor as the other one is behind my DIY chato one. I just got the new Klir Filter kit that drops into your sock holder

What brand is your sump ?

 

[Coral Newbie]

What brand is your sump ?

Trigger sapphire