Revisting halides from leds.

[shred5]

Bridging the old & new: revisiting halides after some time with LEDs

Anyone else experiencing this recession on the underside of a coral with leds mentioned in the above article.? Of coarse this will be more evident with larger mature colonines.

It make sense since leds are such a point source and are extremely directional.. I have heard of other people experiencing this too.
Question is how do you overcome this?

You could add wider optics but that takes away from the advantage of led it also would reduce shimmer which is another appeal... The thing is though leds are such a point source the optics really dont do as much as they do for other lighting sources but wider optics would help in my opinion.

Another thing is have a wider fixture with more lighting in the front and the back of the tank. This makes sure there is lighting coming from in front and behind the corals not just from above.

Athother thing would be to angle your fixtures so its lower in the front and higher at the back so it shine more back to you rock work.

 

[ritter6788]

Anyone else experiencing this recession on the underside of a coral with led.? Of coarse this will be more evident with larger mature colonines.

Not in my experience. I do have some colonies aren't as brightly colored as what is facing the light but there is no recession. I was under the impression that when that happens, sometimes it's a flow issue and not lighting.

 

[bigfoot86]

May I ask what type/brand of LEDs did you use?

 

[shred5]

Not in my experience. I do have some colonies aren't as brightly colored as what is facing the light but there is no recession. I was under the impression that when that happens, sometimes it's a flow issue and not lighting.

Sometimes it can be those things too... I have seen this with other lighting types too when a coral gets really big. Its a self shading issue and as something become more of a point source it can happen even more. Know leds create strong shadows. This does happen in the wild I have seen it there, but less because the sun moves at angles to the water and does not shine from just straight above at high noon all day.

This would be more of a problem with most sps since they come from shallow water. They are receiving light on one side in the morening and then the other side after noon and well from straight above at noon.

 

[mike007]

I use wide angle leds and everything seems to be doing great. I believe it is more the quality of the led.

 

[jeffblly]

I had less growth and color on the shaded sps with mh as it was still a single light source. No different than my current led setup.

 

[ritter6788]

May I ask what type/brand of LEDs did you use?

2x 120w Reefkoi Evolutions. No optics.

 

[shred5]

I use wide angle leds and everything seems to be doing great. I believe it is more the quality of the led.

There really only a few manufacturers of leds and most fixtures use mainly Cree which actually is middle of the road led so I doubt that is a issue. There are many manufacturers putting led packages together kind of like tv's only a few companies actually make the screens.

I had less growth and color on the shaded sps with mh as it was still a single light source. No different than my current led setup.

We are not talking color or Growth were talking self shading recesion. Metal halide is a point source but nothing close to led. No doubt leds put out enough par. Also with all the new color leds there is no doubt the right spectrum's can be added now. Also no doubt the technology will improve from here on out, it always does.

2x 120w Reefkoi Evolutions. No optics.

Interesting no optics.

----------------------

The thing I see is leds are new for most people really cant comment because they have not had their leds long enough to know or even large colonies of sps were this would be a problem...

I would be curious to see pics of sps tanks under leds for 3 years or more..

Would be interesting if poeple would say how long they had their leds.

 

[jedimasterben]

Metal halides are only point-source if you are running them without a reflector. When you add the reflector, it bounces light in a ridiculous amount of angles.

 

[shred5]

Metal halides are only point-source if you are running them without a reflector. When you add the reflector, it bounces light in a ridiculous amount of angles.

Come on do you know what a point source is? Has nothing to do with a reflector. It really simple its light that come from a single point (fiber optic is a good example)...But you are right halides do bounces light around. Just to let you know I work in the lighting industry. While halides throw more light around then a led, the reflector in metal halide is really use to control the light since so much is wasted. The smaller the source of light the more efficent the reflector can be directing the light straight down.. This is the reason t-5 lighting can equal or out perform hailde lighting and so can led.. But fluorescent is not a point source and some people do not cinsider halide a point source. But thats the whole point is halide do bounce more light around like you said at angles taking away from the self shading.

 

[jedimasterben]

Come on do you know what a point source is? Has nothing to do with a reflector. But you are right halides do bounces light around. Just to let you know I work in the lighting industry. It really simple its light that come from a single point... While halides throw more light around then a led. The reflector in metal halide is really use to control the light since so much is wasted. The smaller the source of light the more efficent the reflector can be directing the light straight down.. This is the reason t-5 lighting can equal or out perform hailde lighting and so can led.. But fluorescent is not a point source.

I understand what point-source means - and with a reflector, the lighting is no longer truly point-source. I consider bulb and reflector to be a single entity, as you will almost never see one without the other, especially in this hobby, and that is the reason I stand behind my post above. Halide bulbs accompanied by a reflector can almost wrap around the objects below them because of the reflector, and on top of that refraction by the water, and surface agitation on top of that (which is another point of refraction).

 

[shred5]

I understand what point-source means - and with a reflector, the lighting is no longer truly point-source. I consider bulb and reflector to be a single entity, as you will almost never see one without the other, especially in this hobby, and that is the reason I stand behind my post above. Halide bulbs accompanied by a reflector can almost wrap around the objects below them because of the reflector, and on top of that refraction by the water, and surface agitation on top of that (which is another point of refraction).

Even so you are basically saying why led can have more self shading issues and halides would have less of an issue.

 

[jedimasterben]

Even so you are basically saying why led can have more self shading issues and halides would have less of an issue.

Which is exactly the case with 99% of all LED arrays.

But, these are what are used:

These are what we need to use:

 

[shred5]

Where is that reflector? I would like to look that up and see photometrics on that and see if I can input the ies files into our computer program to see if its better.

 

[jedimasterben]

Where is that reflector? I would like to look that up and see photometrics on that and see if I can input the ies files into our computer program to see if its better.

Led lighting - Products | Ledil

 

[3Twinklets]

I do agree with the article in saying that you need more fixtures. I have 3 AI Vega's on mine. Technically, according to the recommendations of a 2'x2' area, I should need 2 .
I did put my ATI Sunpower T-5 up in addition though. I like the combination of both LED and T-5. Some of the blue and especially purple SPS just were not coloring up as I wanted. The addition of the T-5 seems to have fixed that problem.
Now in all fairness, I put the T-5 up before I replaced my AI SOLS with the Vega's. Do I want to take the ATI Sunpower down and verify that, Nope.......It was to much trouble getting everything up the way I wanted it!! LOL!

 

[shred5]

Led lighting - Products | Ledil

Yea I had found it.. Ies files only available on request. A company in Finland and for bridgelux leds...

The reflector that is larger still cant compete with a halide reflector to bounce light. Funny thing is a reflector is designed not to bounce light it is made to control light but with leds you would actually want to do the opposite. Only problem is that would loose their efficiency tanking away their advantage.... But the difference is you have more leds and not just one or 2 halides. I think angling the front leds towards the back would help.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Which is exactly the case with 99% of all LED arrays.

But, these are what are used:

These are what we need to use:

I measured the PAR Difference between the Carclo Version of these and here are the results

Carclo Ripple Wide (about 45-60 degree) 24" Measurement
590 Peak PAR
200 PAR 21"x27"
100 PAR 27"x34"

Carclo Wide Angle Reflector (80 Degree) 24" Measurement
289 Peak PAR
200 PAR 30"x32"
100 PAR 38"x42"

Optic v Reflector depends on the coverage intensity and penetration you want.

I've been growing SPS with DIY LEDS for over 6 years using optics and never had a light related problem. Large colonies of over 12" have never shown recession at the bases. Just my experience.

Bill

 

[-Logzor]

Bridging the old & new: revisiting halides after some time with LEDs

Anyone else experiencing this recession on the underside of a coral with leds mentioned in the above article.? Of coarse this will be more evident with larger mature colonines.

It make sense since leds are such a point source and are extremely directional.. I have heard of other people experiencing this too.
Question is how do you overcome this?

You could add wider optics but that takes away from the advantage of led it also would reduce shimmer which is another appeal... The thing is though leds are such a point source the optics really dont do as much as they do for other lighting sources but wider optics would help in my opinion.

Another thing is have a wider fixture with more lighting in the front and the back of the tank. This makes sure there is lighting coming from in front and behind the corals not just from above.

Athother thing would be to angle your fixtures so its lower in the front and higher at the back so it shine more back to you rock work.

Yes I have these exact issue with mine. I've kept some acros in my QT tank for awhile and this happens to all of them!

 

[shred5]

I measured the PAR Difference between the Carclo Version of these and here are the results

Carclo Ripple Wide (about 45-60 degree) 24" Measurement
590 Peak PAR
200 PAR 21"x27"
100 PAR 27"x34"

Carclo Wide Angle Reflector (80 Degree) 24" Measurement
289 Peak PAR
200 PAR 30"x32"
100 PAR 38"x42"

Optic v Reflector depends on the coverage intensity and penetration you want.

I've been growing SPS with DIY LEDS for over 6 years using optics and never had a light related problem. Large colonies of over 12" have never shown recession at the bases. Just my experience.

Bill

I am not looking at par, No doubt led have enough par. I am interested in the photometrics of the reflector. If the measured par is directly below and it measures higher than another reflector for the same led it probably is not spreading the light out as much. Really is going to be a juggling act to spread the light out without loosing to much par and not wasting to much light either.

What optics are you using on your tank?