Ridiculously dumb question - Auto Top off siphon danger

[Treefer32]

I've been in the hobby a long time. I had quit for the last 2-3 years due to moving and so on, but I've got a new 340 gallon tank almost ready for livestock. Another 2-3 weeks of cycling and I'll be good to go.

I have a 75 gallon sump that I placed on a sheet of plywood on the floor as it was the safest place to put it in the furnace room.

So, with that said. I realized something... My Auto top off - a 32 gallon rubbermaid bin is taller / higher elevation than my sump... So, when my top off pump runs it starts a siphon and stays running.... There's nothing to stop the siphon once the pump starts it.

In the prior years of running this I had the sump on a home built bench that was about 4 feet off the ground and the top off pump in the same can had to push water 3-4 feet up. So, no siphon could start.

How do I prevent a flood by having my top off pump siphon my entire brute can of water empty into the sump everytime it runs.

The only thing I can think of is to elevate the hose so that it's 10-12" above the sump. Just checking any other suggestions?

 

[clarke.matthew1]

I'm not sure what plumbing you are running but they do have backflow regulators for similar issues

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

How do I prevent a flood by having my top off pump siphon my entire brute can of water empty into the sump everytime it runs.

The only thing I can think of is to elevate the hose so that it's 10-12" above the sump. Just checking any other suggestions?

This would certainly work. What you could do is cut a piece of PVC that's about 10" - 12" high, hang that on the back of your sump, and have the hose drain into that. That would prevent splashing and would prevent the water from potentially missing the tank, but it would allow you to elevate the output of the hose high enough so that a siphon doesn't form.

 

[Treefer32]

This would certainly work. What you could do is cut a piece of PVC that's about 10" - 12" high, hang that on the back of your sump, and have the hose drain into that. That would prevent splashing and would prevent the water from potentially missing the tank, but it would allow you to elevate the output of the hose high enough so that a siphon doesn't form.

See, I knew the solution was even simpler than I thought. I'm thankful I realized it soon enough before my top off bin flooded my sump... My top off hadn't run yet, since I had extra water in the sump. But, it got to the point today that the top off pump would have run. I checked it this morning and adjusted the floats. The pump ran for 2-3 seconds when I was messing with the floats, and then I saw that the hose had water still running into the sump. What the heck! That would have led to a bad Tuesday evening of trying to sop up 10-15 gallons of water that overflowed the sump. I unplugged the pump so it won't run and stuffed the hose in the top off bin. My new project for tonight on the tank. I knew I needed something to do while I waited for it to cycle....

 

[coral49]

side note.. I have my sump in the furnace room. It's been about 7 years. At year 2 i started to notice some rust on pipes. I had a damper on vent that rusted out and stopped functioning and needed to be replaced. I added a small dehumidifier in the room and it slowed it down quite a bit. I wish i had added it from beginning.

 

[Mordie101]

I had my tube fall into my tank and start a siphon. Luckily i have a small tank. I fixed it by just tying the tube above the tank with a bread tie. My bucket of water sits about 3-4 ft below my tank and i have no issues with mine. I use a tunze nano.

Those are the pics i took when the siphon happened to me.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Another thing you can do, which I did with my ATO, is drill a tiny hole in the hose inside the reservoir right above where the waterline would be. That way water pumps out, but as soon as the pump shuts off, it'll suck in air and prevent a siphon

 

[Mebbid]

Get one of the BRS peristaltic pumps for ATO. It will prevent a siphon from occurring.

 

[Treefer32]

side note.. I have my sump in the furnace room. It's been about 7 years. At year 2 i started to notice some rust on pipes. I had a damper on vent that rusted out and stopped functioning and needed to be replaced. I added a small dehumidifier in the room and it slowed it down quite a bit. I wish i had added it from beginning.

Yes, my sump is right below my gas valves for my furnace. So, I was planning on wrapping them in construction grade thick plastic garbage bags to protect them from salt spray, and I will be running a dehumidifier too. In my previous home I evaporated around 2 gallons of water daily. So, I have no delusions that the water will be an issue over time. Hoping to be as preventative as possible.

 

[Treefer32]

Another thing you can do, which I did with my ATO, is drill a tiny hole in the hose inside the reservoir right above where the waterline would be. That way water pumps out, but as soon as the pump shuts off, it'll suck in air and prevent a siphon

This would even be simpler. And even if for some reason the hose fell in some and the hole was covered it would only drain 'till the hole was exposed to air...

 

[Gareth elliott]

I started using a diaphragm pump which work by vibrating a a membrane to form suction and a series of check valves.(my understanding anyway). If a check valve fails, Fails in the off position since will lose its prime. So also safer than a submerged pump. I got for its safer use if running dry.

 

[Aquavaj]

Just recently I was making a diy probe and ato line holder and let the hoses fall to the floor. I didn't know those aqualifters could back siphon so I though I'd be fine with just letting the hoses drop. Dumped probably 2-3 gals on the carpet before I realized.

 

[Tariq]

I went through this issue myself not too long ago.
Drilling a tiny hole above the water line on the outgoing ATO line turned out simple and effective.
This is better than adding check valves, switching to different type of pump etc.

 

[coral49]

good idea.. i will add it to my to do list for my pipes near by furnace... to address your actual question. I have the same set up. 36 gallon brute going into a 55 gallon both on floor. I use Tuzne ATO for 5+ years with hole in hose. Actually 3 holes at various location in brute can for leakage. never an issue with siphon.

 

[jjflounder1]

My DIY ATO ...
The 1/2” PVC is taller than my 5gl bucket ... With multiple holes at the bottom of it ... And There is a vent hole right next to the 1/4 ATO line so it can't create a siphon ...

 

[jjflounder1]

My DIY

 

[Neo Jeo]

No question is dumb but I use to sell appliances. A guy asked me “do you sell washers that don’t need water?”....I said well, that’s a dumb question lol