RO/DI filter change?

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I have a 5 stage from BRS and the first cartridge (.05) gets brown pretty fast while the others are not bad. Usually when it gets bad i just change all the filters and DI resin. Would it be better to just change out the first cartridge and wait for the DI resin to turn color?
 
Depends on how much water you are making, What is your incoming TDS?
The prefilters are rather cheap and you can change it out when you notice that it is getting dirty and the TDS directly behind it starts to rise.

Changing the RO membrane/DI is a matter of cost analysis all depending on the rejection raito.

For example: 75 GPD membrane has a 98% rejection rejection ratio. I would replace it when it drops below 92% or so, depending on the incoming water TDS.

If you incoming TDS is 150, then you can go a lot longer, as the DI does not have to work very hard. If your incoming TDS is 400, then you need to pay close attention the the membrane life.

400 TDS input:
At 98% rejection your RO TDS is about 8, at 90% rejection it is 40.

200 TDS input:
at 98% rejection RO TDS is about 4, at 90% rejection it is 20.

You can see that at 4 or 8 TDS things are not that much different, yes the RESIN will still have to do DOUBLE the work at the lower TDS, but the "TIME" involved is long. At 20 TDS life will be somewhat short for the resin and it is likely less costly just to replace the MEMBRANE to reduce resin usage. However, at 40 TDS the resin is going to get chewed up in no time.

I hope this give you an idea. There is no "real answer" without doing a lot of math to determine the optimum replacement window based on RESIN cost, INPUT TDS, and MEMBRANE cost.
 
The sediment and carbon block filters have very little to absolutely nothing at all to do with TDS, you don't change them based on RO or RO/DI TDS readings. TDS is dissolved solids in the 0.0001 micron range. Sediment filters remove or trap suspended solids or TSS in the 5, 1 or whatever micron range, big floating stuff not seen by a TDS meter.

You change the sediment and carbon block every 6 months as a general rule. This is mostly based on an easy to remember date or number and not scientific. If you want to get more precise you need an inline pressure gauge, or better yet two, one before the sediment filter and the other after the carbon block or like many system in the membrane housing. You monitor headloss or pressure drop and when it drops say 5 psi you change the sediment and carbon block filters. The other thing you need is a low range chlorine test kit to monitor for chlorine breakthru from a plugged or exhausted carbon block. Good 0.5 or 0.6 micron carbons are supposed to last up to 20,000 gallons of normally chlorinated water but if the sediment filter allows silt, particulates and colloidal materials through it plugs the billions of tiny pores in the carbon structure rendering it useless for chlorine adsorption.
As you can see its easier to stick with the 6 month rule for most people who do not want to spend the money or extra time monitoring filter conditions. You also should didinfect the system at the filter changes to keep it clean.

I would suggest a better sediment filter so it does not foul the carbon. 5 microns is very coarse and it is probably a nominal rated 5 microns not even an absolute rating so even worse. I would suggest at least a 1.0 micron asbolute rated sediment filter if not a 0.5 or 0.2 micron version which is what I use myself. The reason I say this is you can actually see 40 microns with the unaided human eye so 5 microns is pretty darn big and passes a lot of small stuff through to plug the carbon. With a better sediment filter the carbon block will last many times longer between changes and save you money even though the sediment filter itself is a little more expensive than the old 5 micron version.

You change the RO membrane when it is no longer cost effective to keep replacing DI cartridges or resin, I stay close rto 95-96% as for every 2% drop you cut your DI life in half. The difference between 98 or in my case 99.4% RO rejection rate and 95% is significant when it comes to DI replacements and a new membrane pays for itself quickly. You will also discover better sediment and carbon block filters will do a better job of protecting the membrane from suspended solids, not TDS or dissolved solids, and the membrane will last longer since it is cleaner.

You replace the DI resin when you first start seeing signs of anything other than 0 TDS on a regular basis. The reason being some substances such as phosphates, silicates and nitrates are weakly ioniozed, not removed well by RO alone and not always removed well by DI resin once it starts becoming exhausted. The resin will start releasing the weakly ionized substances at much larger levels than it was in the tap water since it has been concentrating it in the resin and a TDS meter may not detect all of it since it has weak electrical properties and thats how TDS measures, by conductivity.
 
my incoming water is 45 tds and the output has always been 0. even when my d/i has been almost all brown it was still 0. The first 5 micron turns a nasty iron type color. Shame i just ordered a new set of filters but the next set ill go for the 1 micron sediment and 1 micron carbon, it's what BRS has and thats where i get them. i go thru about 100 gallons a week usually.
 
Its not wise to depend on color changing resins. They are usually very unreliable and can turn all at once, never, top to bottom, bottom to top, in streaks etc. Always rely on a good handheld, temperature compensated TDS meter.
I would suggest shopping fo better filters at www.spectrapure.com or www.buckeyefieldsupply.com . 5 microns is just too darn coarse and will fould the carbon pores without you knowing it, especially since you know you have particulate issues already. I would go for the 0.5 or 1.0 micron absolute rated sediment ASAP to save the carbob block you just spent good money on or you will end up replacing both again quickly when you can save the carbon and the extra money.
 
Its not wise to depend on color changing resins. They are usually very unreliable and can turn all at once, never, top to bottom, bottom to top, in streaks etc. Always rely on a good handheld, temperature compensated TDS meter.
I would suggest shopping fo better filters at www.spectrapure.com or www.buckeyefieldsupply.com . 5 microns is just too darn coarse and will fould the carbon pores without you knowing it, especially since you know you have particulate issues already. I would go for the 0.5 or 1.0 micron absolute rated sediment ASAP to save the carbob block you just spent good money on or you will end up replacing both again quickly when you can save the carbon and the extra money.

I been doing it this way for a while with no problems from tds. I typically change all the filters except the membrane. I ordered a 150 gpd upgrade kit and the regular filters, once i use these up ill go with the 1 micron filters from now on.
 
Again, the sediment and carbon filters have nothing to do with TDS, they protect the membrane from suspended solids and chlorine. You will see a huge difference in the life of the RO membrane though and eventually the DI resin.

I hope you didn't buy either a 150 GPD RO membrane or a piggyback 75 GPD with the intention of reducing the waste ratio, it does not work that way. When you double the membranes it is even more critical to keep the waste ratio up since the second membrane is receiving the concentrated waste from the first and will fail quickly. If you have at least 65 psi at the tap, have softened water and have lower than normal TDS then you can get away with lowering the waste ratio, if not it doesn't work well.

The 150 GPD membrane has quality control issues and is hit and miss at best. Some are OK, most don't come anywhere close to 98% rejection rate, failing miserably, and again they require 65+ psi to funtion at anywhere near 150 GPD rather than 50 psi like a 75 GPD membrane.

Honestly I would find a better more informed vendor when it comes to RO/DI, they just have not been around long enough and don't have the knowledge or expertise others have, evidenced by the things they sell in many cases. I absolutely love their chemicals and have two 5G buckets of their magnesium 2 part supplement, two part alkalinity and calcium in bulk, bulk GFPO and bulk carbon but their RO/DI knowledge is not up to my standards.
 
Again, the sediment and carbon filters have nothing to do with TDS, they protect the membrane from suspended solids and chlorine. You will see a huge difference in the life of the RO membrane though and eventually the DI resin.

I hope you didn't buy either a 150 GPD RO membrane or a piggyback 75 GPD with the intention of reducing the waste ratio, it does not work that way. When you double the membranes it is even more critical to keep the waste ratio up since the second membrane is receiving the concentrated waste from the first and will fail quickly. If you have at least 65 psi at the tap, have softened water and have lower than normal TDS then you can get away with lowering the waste ratio, if not it doesn't work well.

The 150 GPD membrane has quality control issues and is hit and miss at best. Some are OK, most don't come anywhere close to 98% rejection rate, failing miserably, and again they require 65+ psi to funtion at anywhere near 150 GPD rather than 50 psi like a 75 GPD membrane.

Honestly I would find a better more informed vendor when it comes to RO/DI, they just have not been around long enough and don't have the knowledge or expertise others have, evidenced by the things they sell in many cases. I absolutely love their chemicals and have two 5G buckets of their magnesium 2 part supplement, two part alkalinity and calcium in bulk, bulk GFPO and bulk carbon but their RO/DI knowledge is not up to my standards.
Yes i did get the 150 gpd upgrade kit:sad:
I watched the video and it really didn't make sense to me to send the waste water thru the other filter, butI figured they knew what was best.:suspicious:
To me it seems like coming out of the carbon block it should split and then go to the 2 membranes, but that's just an uneducated guess anyways. I use my waste water for my lawn and flowers so the amount of waste doesnt matter to me, I just wanted faster production.
 
Thanks AZdesert for the time you spent helping me, very much appreciated
 
Glad I can help. In the early years I did a bunch of trial and error testing and spent a lot of money in the process. I like to think I'm at least a little smarter today, or at least have friends and colleagues I can count on who are. Being in the water/wastewater/environmental engineering field I have a lot of contacts that are recognized experts in just about anything related to water quality.
 
The sediment and carbon block filters have very little to absolutely nothing at all to do with TDS, you don't change them based on RO or RO/DI TDS readings. TDS is dissolved solids in the 0.0001 micron range. Sediment filters remove or trap suspended solids or TSS in the 5, 1 or whatever micron range, big floating stuff not seen by a TDS meter.

You change the sediment and carbon block every 6 months as a general rule. This is mostly based on an easy to remember date or number and not scientific. If you want to get more precise you need an inline pressure gauge, or better yet two, one before the sediment filter and the other after the carbon block or like many system in the membrane housing. You monitor headloss or pressure drop and when it drops say 5 psi you change the sediment and carbon block filters. The other thing you need is a low range chlorine test kit to monitor for chlorine breakthru from a plugged or exhausted carbon block. Good 0.5 or 0.6 micron carbons are supposed to last up to 20,000 gallons of normally chlorinated water but if the sediment filter allows silt, particulates and colloidal materials through it plugs the billions of tiny pores in the carbon structure rendering it useless for chlorine adsorption.
As you can see its easier to stick with the 6 month rule for most people who do not want to spend the money or extra time monitoring filter conditions. You also should didinfect the system at the filter changes to keep it clean.

I would suggest a better sediment filter so it does not foul the carbon. 5 microns is very coarse and it is probably a nominal rated 5 microns not even an absolute rating so even worse. I would suggest at least a 1.0 micron asbolute rated sediment filter if not a 0.5 or 0.2 micron version which is what I use myself. The reason I say this is you can actually see 40 microns with the unaided human eye so 5 microns is pretty darn big and passes a lot of small stuff through to plug the carbon. With a better sediment filter the carbon block will last many times longer between changes and save you money even though the sediment filter itself is a little more expensive than the old 5 micron version.

You change the RO membrane when it is no longer cost effective to keep replacing DI cartridges or resin, I stay close rto 95-96% as for every 2% drop you cut your DI life in half. The difference between 98 or in my case 99.4% RO rejection rate and 95% is significant when it comes to DI replacements and a new membrane pays for itself quickly. You will also discover better sediment and carbon block filters will do a better job of protecting the membrane from suspended solids, not TDS or dissolved solids, and the membrane will last longer since it is cleaner.

You replace the DI resin when you first start seeing signs of anything other than 0 TDS on a regular basis. The reason being some substances such as phosphates, silicates and nitrates are weakly ioniozed, not removed well by RO alone and not always removed well by DI resin once it starts becoming exhausted. The resin will start releasing the weakly ionized substances at much larger levels than it was in the tap water since it has been concentrating it in the resin and a TDS meter may not detect all of it since it has weak electrical properties and thats how TDS measures, by conductivity.
I have had my 5 stage Rodi system for a year now. I had changed out the sediment filter once but never the carbon blocks. I’ve replaced the DI resin once before when I saw my TDS on the out go up to about 2. I just changed it again and it went back to 0.
I ordered and replaced the sediment (1 Micron) and both carbon blocks (1 micron each) today and will be going to a more 6 mos process. My sediment filter wasn’t that dirty and the pressure was still at 80psi but I just wanted to get back to optimal as quick as possible.
I saw a BRS short video in which Ryan said you are wasting money if you change both carbon blocks at the same time. The first one traps about 90% and the second one traps the other 10% that the first one doesn’t get. My question is would it be ok to discard the first carbon block every 6 mos and rotate the 2nd carbon block to the first position and just replace the 2nd one each 6mos?

Also my TDS meter has an In and an out. The IN was at 5 prior to changing the 3 filters snd now it’s at 13-15 steady. Is that an issue? Will it drop as the new filter prime up?

Do you recommend flushing the membrane before and after making water? If so, how long?
Appreciate your knowledge.
 

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