Ro or Di water

[ohio reefer]

A RO/DI unit is out of the budget for me, but a local health store has a water unit that you can get RO water, or DI water. It's only 30c a gallon too so it works well for me. What is better for a reef? RO or DI? Thanks.

 

[MRRBW]

Not sure which would be better, new to using it myself. I still buy from my lfs. But it may be worth it in the long run to shell out the money now. In 6mnths to a year it will have paid itself off. You can get a good one on eBay, Aquasafe Canada, for 96$ right now for a 7 stage. I know it doesn't answer your question, but wanted to share that there are affordable alternatives to brs and other brands out there.

 

[AZDesertRat]

DI. It will already have been through the RO before it is treated with the DI so they get better life out of their DI. RO only by itself is only 90-98% treated so will still contain some contaminants, the DI does the final polishing.

Don't waste your money on ebay quality RO/DI systems, you get what you pay for and cheap is not where you want to be. They usually end up costing more to make work correctly than a good RO/DI costs to begin with. Their "7 stage" claim is a bunch of bull, a couple of cheap granular carbons and multiple hollow tubes with outdated DI resin bobbing around do not qualify as real "stages". A very good reef quality RO/DI can be had for around $130 and there is no comparison in quality and performance.

 

[Mr tap water]

A RO/DI unit is out of the budget for me, but a local health store has a water unit that you can get RO water, or DI water. It's only 30c a gallon too so it works well for me. What is better for a reef? RO or DI? Thanks.

The one that gives a TDS of zero is best

 

[AZDesertRat]

RO by itself will never be 0 TDS. it is only a 90-98% efficient device at best so can never remove everthing.

 

[Mr tap water]

I agree with you but your question was which is better for a reef RO or DI

 

[Maikoa02]

DI. Should be 0 or close to 0 TDS.

 

[AZDesertRat]

And the answer is DI, it is he only one of the two that can possibly be 0 TDS.

 

[Mr tap water]

Well done

 

[MRRBW]

I agree that the 7-stage is really just a 5 stage. But Aquasafe Canada has been in the business for over 3 decades and I can vouch for those I know who use it in Montreal, more than 100 people, it produces 0-TDS water consistently with long life span of your cartridges. So I wouldn't criticize a brand you don't anything about. But yes, do your research first and don't cheap out on your products as you will cause yourself more headaches.

 

[gtbarsi]

If you can not afford a RO/DI system then do yourself a favor and by a good TDS meter. Buy a gallon of the DI water and test it. You want 0 tds, but given you are not generating it onsite, then I would say a max of 2 TDS would be acceptable.

You are going to go through a lot of water in this hobby so it is worth getting a good RO/DI filter of your own. Break even for a $130 unit is about 433 gallons ignoring all other costs associated. What size tank are you setting up, what do you expect to do for water changes? If you are setting up a nano tank and changing 5 gallons or less / every 7 days it may make sense to buy RO water but only if you can get it at or below 2 tds.

P.S. You should be testing the TDS of the water you are starting with for EVERY batch of water you work with. Not just once in a while, and that even goes for water made by your own RO/DI filter.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Actually water treatment has been my profession for 39+ years and I know quite a bit about the Aquasafe systems, I have helped modify many so they actually work and last. They are a low end ebay quality system at best and you can do much better for the same money or less in the states. I know it is tough to find good choices in Canada without paying an arm and a leg but there are better choices.

gtbarsi how did you come up with a break even cost? I know from experience the average cost to produce your own RO/DI water is about a nickel a gallon including water and sewer rates, replacement filters and replacement resin. You will probably pay 89 cents a gallon for distillled water so the break even is quicker than 433 gallons.

 

[gtbarsi]

Actually water treatment has been my profession for 39+ years and I know quite a bit about the Aquasafe systems, I have helped modify many so they actually work and last. They are a low end ebay quality system at best and you can do much better for the same money or less in the states. I know it is tough to find good choices in Canada without paying an arm and a leg but there are better choices.

gtbarsi how did you come up with a break even cost? I know from experience the average cost to produce your own RO/DI water is about a nickel a gallon including water and sewer rates, replacement filters and replacement resin. You will probably pay 89 cents a gallon for distillled water so the break even is quicker than 433 gallons.

Assuming the DI water that the OP identified at $0.30/gal is good (at or below 2 TDS) vs $130 purchase price for the RO/DI filtration system. Ignoring all other associated costs. I realize that this is not very piratical but we have no idea what it costs the OP for water / sewer, etc. Not to mention we have no idea what the cost to transport the purchased RO might be. I was just trying to make the point that if you have access to good cheep RO water and you are not using a lot of it an argument could be made to go that route vs owning and maintaining your own. The costs to run a RO/DI filter not to mention filter replacement drive the point even further.

I personally got my own RO/DI filter and I really like it but I could see saving that money and paying $0.30 / gallon if it was 0 TDS and they let me use my own containers.


P.S. I do not consider distilled water an option. Too many unknowns including the type of condenser they use, and the fact that despite being distilled it is never at 0 TDS.

 

[beaslbob]

sorry I can't help. I didn't use either.


my .02

 

[AZDesertRat]

Distilled water is always an option. Todays modern commercial stills use exotic metals that are glass or epoxy lined unlike the old days of copper pipes and vessels. The walMart purple cap almost always comes out 0 TDS according to those using it.

Regardless of what the OP ends up doing, purchasing a unit or purchasing treated water, they should invest $20-$25 in a good ATC compensated handheld TDS meter. The HM Digital TDS-3, TDS-4TM and AP-1 are all good choices in that price range. The only way you will know for sure is test the treated water yourself. RO will never ever be truly 0 TDS and you don't want anything except 0 TDS since you have absolutely no idea what the TDS is made up of. it could be something as simple as salt residue or it could be nitrates, phosphates, silicates, copper or any number of things. The idea is with your own RO/DI you alone control its quality and do not need to depend on anyone else. When you purchase water you are at their mercy, how efficient their system is and how well they do or don't maintain it.

 

[MRRBW]

So what systems would you recommend then for 130$? It's fine to trounce something, but even better to offer alternatives ;-). And from those i know who use the Aquasafe, they get good lifespan and solid water. So I'm not sure why you don't like them so much.

 

[manueldm]

Spectrapure is selling a 90 GPD unit for $124.99 right now. I have been shopping for a unit the past week, just wanted to share. I have read nothing but good things about Spectrapure. AZDesertRat, what is your opinion of Spectrapure?

 

[gtbarsi]

Spectrapure is selling a 90 GPD unit for $124.99 right now. I have been shopping for a unit the past week, just wanted to share. I have read nothing but good things about Spectrapure. AZDesertRat, what is your opinion of Spectrapure?

That's a referb unit, but it looks to be a good baseline unit to me, there are plenty of options that you might want to add, the first being a manual flush valve.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Flush kits are a waste of money and have no proven documented value other than to ligten your wallet and give you a warm fuzzy feeling.
The Spectrapure system is new in all respects except it may have a scratch or scuff somewhere so it cannot be sold as new. It includes a specially treated and batch tested high rejection rate RO membrane versus an off the shelf, dry, untested elsewhere. It also includes a 1 micron near absolute rated sediment filter and a 1 micron 12,000 gallon capacity carbon block. Others often use high micron sediment filters about as effective as a screen door then stack multiple carbons to act as sacrificial filters for the particulates the sediment filter missed. Many count these as "stages" when a good system uses one high quality sediment filter and one solid extruded carbon block, not multiples and certainly not granular carbons that last about 300 total gallons and turn to dust contaminating everything downstream and adding TDS back to the finished water. Spectrapure also custom blends all their DI resins in house based on tens of thousands of hours of real world testing. Others sell you prepackaged and common mixed bed resins that may or may not be suitable for reef use. They also provide an inline pressure gauge in their basic systems ans use the much better capillary tube flow restrictors so you the end user can fine tune your waste ratio according to your exact conditions, others use fixed restrictors that usually are not correct.

My other recommendations would be the 75 GPD Premium systems from www.buckeyehydro.com or the Optima series from www.purelyh2o.com. Buckeye also offers tested membranes for a slight additional cost and both use high quality low micron sediment and single carbon blocks and include things like pressure gauges. Buckeye also goes a step further and includes a DI bypass valve so you can eliminate the TDS creep problem which flush kits do nothing for.

 

[MRRBW]

Thanks AZDesertRat. I get what you're saying. After researching all this again further, several hours later, I'm still confused as to what kit to get. I see what you say about Aquasafe with the material used etc. What are the essentials in your view as to what a basic system needs? Also which one have you used and what is the average life span of your cartridges? Last question, is there a way to reduce waste water? I do like the 1:1 ratio from Aquasafe - (if true), but all the others are 4:1, 3:1. What are your thoughts on that?

sorry Ohio reefer - I feel like we hijacked your thread, but I think the info and questions are good and relevant. Hope you don't mind