Ro unit isn't working correct di material changes color

[AZDesertRat]

Your dual inline meter should already be reading the RO only with the IN probe and the final RO/DI with the OUT probe. 99+% of the vendors install it this way.
If it is not that way it should be.

You can disconnect the line from the membrane to the DI and use a nice squeaky clean clear glass drinking water glass to capture some of the RO only water to test with your handheld. If its the TDS-EZ meter it is not temperature compensated so make sure you leave the meter in the glass long enough for the reading to stabilize. The inlines read air temperature which is rarely the same as water temperature so can be off significantly and why I don't use mine.

You also said your water temperature is 78 degrees, is that what it comes out of the tap at? Sounds kind of warm unless you have shallow pipes outside or the water source is a lake or impoundment close by. Even in Phoenix my water temp is in the high 50's to low 60's much of the time since they draw water from under the surface of the lakes to keep it cooler and better water quality. If yours is cooler never try and blend hot and cold, this is the quickest way to ruin a membrane there is, they cannot take anything above 113 degrees and thats not that warm really. Remember being in the shower and someone flushes the toilet or starts the washer? You get your tush scalded and the same thing happens when you try and blend hot and cold for a RO, you toast your membrane. Cold water only always. Besides cold water treats better and will give you lower TDS and longer DI life. Cold water is more dense so does not pass through the membrane as readily and the contaminats stay behind better to be flushed out by the 4:1 waste ratio.

 

[Budman's Corals]

Your dual inline meter should already be reading the RO only with the IN probe and the final RO/DI with the OUT probe. 99+% of the vendors install it this way.
If it is not that way it should be.

You can disconnect the line from the membrane to the DI and use a nice squeaky clean clear glass drinking water glass to capture some of the RO only water to test with your handheld. If its the TDS-EZ meter it is not temperature compensated so make sure you leave the meter in the glass long enough for the reading to stabilize. The inlines read air temperature which is rarely the same as water temperature so can be off significantly and why I don't use mine.

You also said your water temperature is 78 degrees, is that what it comes out of the tap at? Sounds kind of warm unless you have shallow pipes outside or the water source is a lake or impoundment close by. Even in Phoenix my water temp is in the high 50's to low 60's much of the time since they draw water from under the surface of the lakes to keep it cooler and better water quality. If yours is cooler never try and blend hot and cold, this is the quickest way to ruin a membrane there is, they cannot take anything above 113 degrees and thats not that warm really. Remember being in the shower and someone flushes the toilet or starts the washer? You get your tush scalded and the same thing happens when you try and blend hot and cold for a RO, you toast your membrane. Cold water only always. Besides cold water treats better and will give you lower TDS and longer DI life. Cold water is more dense so does not pass through the membrane as readily and the contaminats stay behind better to be flushed out by the 4:1 waste ratio.

so i need to move the meter reading the in right b4 the ro membrane then

 

[AZDesertRat]

To temporarily test the tap water TDS you would install the OUT probe on the incoming tap water line before the sediment filter or anywhere before the RO membrane since sediment and carbon filters have very little to absolutely nothing to do with removing TDS.

For permanent though the IN probe should be on the RO treated water and the OUT probe on the final RO/DI water. You can't do anything about your tap water other than treat it with the RO membrane and the tap doesn't change much day to day so its not as critical to keep daily track of it so a probe on the tap water isn't really important if you only have one dual inline meter. You do need to keep track of the RO membrane performance though so a probe on the RO water is critical. Once you know the tap water TDS, and you periodically double check it, you can calculate your RO membrane performance, removal efficiency or rejection rate, easily. Its as simple as subtracting the RO only TDS from the tap water TDS, divide that number by the original tap water TDS then multiply by 100 to get the rejection rate.
Using my numbers it looks like this: 630 tap TDS - 3 RO only TDS = 627, 627/630 = .9952, .9952 x 100 = 99.52% rejection rate or removal efficiency from the RO only. That a 5 year old RO membrane in Phoenix with tap water between 550 and 850, temps between 58 and 68 degrees and softened water.

 

[Budman's Corals]

To temporarily test the tap water TDS you would install the OUT probe on the incoming tap water line before the sediment filter or anywhere before the RO membrane since sediment and carbon filters have very little to absolutely nothing to do with removing TDS.

For permanent though the IN probe should be on the RO treated water and the OUT probe on the final RO/DI water. You can't do anything about your tap water other than treat it with the RO membrane and the tap doesn't change much day to day so its not as critical to keep daily track of it so a probe on the tap water isn't really important if you only have one dual inline meter. You do need to keep track of the RO membrane performance though so a probe on the RO water is critical. Once you know the tap water TDS, and you periodically double check it, you can calculate your RO membrane performance, removal efficiency or rejection rate, easily. Its as simple as subtracting the RO only TDS from the tap water TDS, divide that number by the original tap water TDS then multiply by 100 to get the rejection rate.
Using my numbers it looks like this: 630 tap TDS - 3 RO only TDS = 627, 627/630 = .9952, .9952 x 100 = 99.52% rejection rate or removal efficiency from the RO only. That a 5 year old RO membrane in Phoenix with tap water between 550 and 850, temps between 58 and 68 degrees and softened water.

I really appreciate the time it takes you to explain it all to me..im about to go out in the garage and fix it like u said in about 15 minutes...

 

[Budman's Corals]

OKAY I GOT the tds meter reading the water going in right b4 the ro membrane and its 67 and then i have the tds meter aft the ro meter b4 it goes to the di and its reading 50 not much of a drop


i just hooked it up the permenat way and its reading out of ro 57 and 05 after the di

 

[AZDesertRat]

Sounds like your RO membrane is shot.
Make sure you run it for several minutes before taking the readings so you have flushed out any effects of TDS creeep. When a membrane first starts up it will have highe rthan normal TDS but it should settle down to its normal TDS in a matter or minutes or less.

How hot does it get in your garage? Remember, membranes are not tolerant of heat or cold so if it gets up to 113 or down to freezing in the garage it may need a better home so it stays climate controlled. With a tap TDS of 67 going in you should only be seeing a RO only TDS of 1 or 2 and of course 0 from the DI. Did you double check the readings with your handheld to be sure? It should be close to the inline readings at least, if it is significantly different then you may want to borrow a meter from someone of take samples of your tap, RO and RO/DI to the LFS and have them check them.

How old is your RO/DI system and have you kept up with the sediment and carbon block replacements and the annual disinfection? Are you using high quality, low micron replacement filters like no larger than 1.0 microns? Have you actually checked and measured your waste ratio or are you assuming it is correct? Has it always been 4:1 or have you tried reducing or restricting it in any way in the past? Have you ever attempted to blend hot and cold or fed hot water to the membrane in the past? All of these things can have a huge effect on RO membrane lifespan and performance.

 

[Budman's Corals]

Sounds like your RO membrane is shot.
Make sure you run it for several minutes before taking the readings so you have flushed out any effects of TDS creeep. When a membrane first starts up it will have highe rthan normal TDS but it should settle down to its normal TDS in a matter or minutes or less.

How hot does it get in your garage?AH ID SAY MAX 90 BUT THATS ON 100 DEGREE DAYS Remember, membranes are not tolerant of heat or cold so if it gets up to 113 or down to freezing NO FREEZING in the garage it may need a better home so it stays climate controlled. With a tap TDS of 67 going in you should only be seeing a RO only TDS of 1 or 2 and of course 0 from the DI. Did you double check the readings with your handheld to be sure? noT YET GOING TO DO THAT NOW It should be close to the inline readings at least, if it is significantly different then you may want to borrow a meter from someone of take samples of your tap, RO and RO/DI to the LFS and have them check them.

How old is your RO/DI systed 2 years old replaced carbons and sed twice and di only once before about 6 months ago and have you kept up with the sediment and carbon block replacements and the annual disinfection? Are you using high quality, low micron replacement filters like no larger than 1.0 microns?yes a .06 and a 1.0 Have you actually checked and measured your waste ratio or are you assuming it is correct?im assuming but will go that now also Has it always been 4:1 or have you tried reducing or restricting it in any way in the past?never tried to reduce Have you ever attempted to blend hot and cold or fed hot water to the membrane in the past?always cold water All of these things can have a huge effect on RO membrane lifespan and performance.

Just the ro membrane is about 2 years old ,have been for the past 6 months selling ro water to friends,so i have been using alot more since the 1st year i had the unit..I only have a 120g with 40 g sump so i dont go thru to much water

 

[Budman's Corals]

ok the handheld read 07 tds after the di
and 62 after the ro and before it entered the di

the inline meter reads 05 after di and 57 after ro and b4 di

kinda close water temp coming out is 77.4

water ration seems like it fills up faster but havent done the gallon ratio yet

 

[Budman's Corals]

something aint right ,im getting a gallon of ro to a gallon of waste...

 

[AZDesertRat]

Sounds like the meters are close so looks like it is time for a new RO membrane and matched flow restrictor.
I would highly recommend the 90 GPD specially treated, individually hand tested and guaranteed in writing to be better than 98% rejection rate Select series from Spectrapure. It starts out life as a 75GPD Dow Filmtec then they subject it to a proprietary treatment to improve its rejection rate and GPD and individually test its performance and write the results right on the membrane. I would get a matched capillary tube flow restrictor to go with it for another $6 and which you cut to size based on your exact water conditions so the waste ratio is exact and not ballpark close. The membrane is only $45 here.
SpectraSelect Tested 90-GPD RO Membrane

While PurelyH2o is one of the vendors I often recommend, they sell dry, untested and non guaranteed membranes for about the same price and you get what you get:
http://www.purelyh2o.com/index.php?...ategory_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=99

 

[Budman's Corals]

Ok here my situation. Replace all cartridges exceot the top membrane. On 5/25/13. Ran maybe 200 gallons and now the di has changed colors... for the 200 gallons I was getting 0 tds and now 03. The top membrane hasnt been replaced in 2 years. Could that cause the di to change that fast
Sent Via the R2R Forum APP

please tell me if i have the flush kit turned off..

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yep, your flow restrictor is not right so your membrane has fouled or plugged up. So many of us never bother to check the waste ratio occasionally and this is very important as it is what keeps the membrane operable. So called flush kits are a waste of money and all they are good for is giving you a warm fuzzy feeling and lightening your wallet. If you really want something of value, install a DI bypass valve so you can flush the TDS creep water to waste before it gets to your DI resin and you will cut down on DI replacements. This is flushing the creep out of the treated side of the membrane, flush kits just flush the waste side which gets flushed constantly with the 4:1 waste ratio.
In your case, you have low tap TDS so you can get by with 3:1 wast ratio instead of 4:1 but I would not go any lower than that. You can do this with the capillary tube restrictor when you trim its length.

In your first photo, the flush kit is off which is normal operation. If it were on the waste would be much higher. maybe 20:1 or higher. Personally I would throw it away if it were me

 

[Budman's Corals]

Sounds like the meters are close so looks like it is time for a new RO membrane and matched flow restrictor.
I would highly recommend the 90 GPD specially treated, individually hand tested and guaranteed in writing to be better than 98% rejection rate Select series from Spectrapure. It starts out life as a 75GPD Dow Filmtec then they subject it to a proprietary treatment to improve its rejection rate and GPD and individually test its performance and write the results right on the membrane. I would get a matched capillary tube flow restrictor to go with it for another $6 and which you cut to size based on your exact water conditions so the waste ratio is exact and not ballpark close. The membrane is only $45 here.
SpectraSelect Tested 90-GPD RO Membrane

While PurelyH2o is one of the vendors I often recommend, they sell dry, untested and non guaranteed membranes for about the same price and you get what you get:
http://www.purelyh2o.com/index.php?...ategory_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=99

so that membrane will fit my unit...
i will be ordering whatever i need to get it back working properly, tell yea the truth i never used the flush kit thing

the flow restrictor that all i need also and also get new di resin correct

 

[Swine]

Might be a silly question but does it matter what order the filters are hooked up in? I can't tell how your plumbing is set up but usually the di is the last stage and separate from the others.

sent from my phone.

 

[Budman's Corals]

Might be a silly question but does it matter what order the filters are hooked up in? I can't tell how your plumbing is set up but usually the di is the last stage and separate from the others.

sent from my phone.

starts at the right works left,yes the DI is the last and goes directly to the tank

 

[Budman's Corals]

Yep, your flow restrictor is not right so your membrane has fouled or plugged up. So many of us never bother to check the waste ratio occasionally and this is very important as it is what keeps the membrane operable. So called flush kits are a waste of money and all they are good for is giving you a warm fuzzy feeling and lightening your wallet. If you really want something of value, install a DI bypass valve so you can flush the TDS creep water to waste before it gets to your DI resin and you will cut down on DI replacements. This is flushing the creep out of the treated side of the membrane, flush kits just flush the waste side which gets flushed constantly with the 4:1 waste ratio.
In your case, you have low tap TDS so you can get by with 3:1 wast ratio instead of 4:1 but I would not go any lower than that. You can do this with the capillary tube restrictor when you trim its length.

In your first photo, the flush kit is off which is normal operation. If it were on the waste would be much higher. maybe 20:1 or higher. Personally I would throw it away if it were me

now i did produce alot of waste to ro/di water when i first got the unit.but apperently lately its not

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yes the Select membranes are a standard Dow Filmtec 1812 configuration so are a direct replacement for your system.
I would also get a SilicaBuster or Super SilicaBuster DI cartridge at the same time, you will be extremely pleased with its performance I promise.

Your filters are in the correct order but personally I would get rid of the unneeded second carbon filter and go with a 0.5 micron absolute rated sediment filter, a single 0.5 micron carbon block, the RO membrane then the DI. If you want bang for your buck and long DI life then move the extra free standing housing to the DI side and install a second DI mush like the Spectrapure MaxCap system. You are basically there with the 0.5 sediment, 0.5 carbon, Select membrane and SilicaBuster DI, all you would do is place the MaxCap cartridge in the first DI canister on the main bracket and the SilicaBuster DI in the second extra canister and you have a MaxCap RO/DI system. I am getting 1000+ gallons per MaxCap cartridge and 3000+ gallons out of a single SilicaBuster cartridge here in Phoenix with over 600 tap TDS.

FAQ p.2

Whats so different about the MaxCap RO/DI System?? - Reef Central Online Community

 

[Budman's Corals]

Yes the Select membranes are a standard Dow Filmtec 1812 configuration so are a direct replacement for your system.
I would also get a SilicaBuster or Super SilicaBuster DI cartridge at the same time, you will be extremely pleased with its performance I promise.

Your filters are in the correct order but personally I would get rid of the unneeded second carbon filter and go with a 0.5 micron absolute rated sediment filter, a single 0.5 micron carbon block, the RO membrane then the DI. If you want bang for your buck and long DI life then move the extra free standing housing to the DI side and install a second DI mush like the Spectrapure MaxCap system. You are basically there with the 0.5 sediment, 0.5 carbon, Select membrane and SilicaBuster DI, all you would do is place the MaxCap cartridge in the first DI canister on the main bracket and the SilicaBuster DI in the second extra canister and you have a MaxCap RO/DI system. I am getting 1000+ gallons per MaxCap cartridge and 3000+ gallons out of a single SilicaBuster cartridge here in Phoenix with over 600 tap TDS.

FAQ p.2

Whats so different about the MaxCap RO/DI System?? - Reef Central Online Community

WOW...

so starting at right on the main unit..sed/.05/RO/DI/ then the free standing one DI

gotcha im going to do that

 

[AZDesertRat]

A single 0.5 micron extruded carbon block is good for 20,000 gallons of normally chlorinated or chloraminated tap water so two carbons is redundant, one will outlast the sediment filter in front of it as long as it is protected. Where some vendors still mess up is they use a very coarse sediment filterk, 10 or 5 microns and nominal not absolute, so it is about as effective as a screen door for protecting the billions of tiny microscopic pores in the carbon block and it is soon fouled with silt amd colloidal materials. This is why they use two carbons, one is sacrificial to make up for the poorly performing sediment filter and soon gets plugged. What they don't bother to consider is this also cuts the pressure to the RO membrane reducing its rejection rate and driving the cost of DI replacements up not to mention the cost of that extra canister and carbon that needs replacing each time too. Very old school way of thinking. Carbon technmology has come leaps and bounds in the last 10-15 years so one more than does the job of several old ones.

 

[Budman's Corals]

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[TD="class: name"]SpectraSelect Tested 90-GPD RO Membrane
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[TD="class: model"]MEM-S-0090[/TD]
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[TD="class: price"]$45.00[/TD]
[TD="class: total"]$45.00[/TD]
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[TD="class: name"]0.5 Micron Sediment Filter Cartridge 10-inch
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[TD="class: price"]$12.00[/TD]
[TD="class: total"]$12.00[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="class: image"][/TD]
[TD="class: name"]MaxCap® DI Cartridge - Standard 10-inch
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[TD="class: model"]DI-MC-10[/TD]
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[TD="class: price"]$30.99[/TD]
[TD="class: total"]$30.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: image"][/TD]
[TD="class: name"]SilicaBuster™ DI Cartridge - Color-Indicating Standard 10-inch
[/TD]
[TD="class: model"]DI-SB-CI-10[/TD]
[TD="class: quantity"] [/TD]
[TD="class: price"]$22.00[/TD]
[TD="class: total"]$22.0[/TD]
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So is this correct?