RODI, 0 TDS but 0.07 p04?

[Colin_S]

I have suffered from higher than i would like phosphate for EVER. it's got to point where my sump is overwhelmed by green hair algae and stopping the chaeto growing, my live rocks in the DT are covered in it. i'm forever cleaning it to a point where its becoming a joke. This has been going on for over a year now, so you can sense my frustration.
I've even taken all the LR out and cleaned them with hydrogen peroxide convinved it was the LR leeching out po4. I have a chaeto refugium, phosphate reactor and i dose with Brightwell phosphate remover and i only ever got down to 0.04, then before you know it the p04 would rise. i had tested my auto top off before and it was all good.
I have moved my chaeto to a section of the DT under better lights, hoping it will grow and be big enough to absord the po4.
I'm now running Triton and had my water tested, all was near perfect apart from po4 which was 0.024 and my iodine was 0, i was hoping/wishing this would solve my po4 issue but no.
I've even started making the food myself to eliminate any possibility of po4 being in the food.. this is how obsessed i've become at getting rid of it.

This got me re-thinking... something simple has to be at work. Even though i tested it before and it was ok, all things pointed to the water from the top off. I recently changed all the filters and the di resin from the RODI and my water is at 0 TDS, i never let it go above 3 TDS. I tested the water today form my storage bins and the po4 was at 0.07 and this was from 0 TDS? i'm going to test the water direct from the RODI and see what that gives me.

Has anyone gone through this? where could the po4 be withing the RODI? is it cheap media?
would a decent size chaeto ball absord 0.04 of po4?

Sorry for the rant, sometimes you just need to get it off your chest. its been such a long, expensive and tiring battle it's almost beat me, but i got a few more rounds left in me yet.

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

I have suffered from higher than i would like phosphate for EVER. it's got to point where my sump is overwhelmed by green hair algae and stopping the chaeto growing, my live rocks in the DT are covered in it. i'm forever cleaning it to a point where its becoming a joke. This has been going on for over a year now, so you can sense my frustration.
I've even taken all the LR out and cleaned them with hydrogen peroxide convinved it was the LR leeching out po4. I have a chaeto refugium, phosphate reactor and i dose with Brightwell phosphate remover and i only ever got down to 0.04, then before you know it the p04 would rise. i had tested my auto top off before and it was all good.
I have moved my chaeto to a section of the DT under better lights, hoping it will grow and be big enough to absord the po4.
I'm now running Triton and had my water tested, all was near perfect apart from po4 which was 0.024 and my iodine was 0, i was hoping/wishing this would solve my po4 issue but no.
I've even started making the food myself to eliminate any possibility of po4 being in the food.. this is how obsessed i've become at getting rid of it.

This got me re-thinking... something simple has to be at work. Even though i tested it before and it was ok, all things pointed to the water from the top off. I recently changed all the filters and the di resin from the RODI and my water is at 0 TDS, i never let it go above 3 TDS. I tested the water today form my storage bins and the po4 was at 0.07 and this was from 0 TDS? i'm going to test the water direct from the RODI and see what that gives me.

Has anyone gone through this? where could the po4 be withing the RODI? is it cheap media?
would a decent size chaeto ball absord 0.04 of po4?

Sorry for the rant, sometimes you just need to get it off your chest. its been such a long, expensive and tiring battle it's almost beat me, but i got a few more rounds left in me yet.

Gfo reactor. Eats phosphates up. However, I don’t see the problem with your phosphates... I keep mine at .10. Ideal range is .10-.20. Algae can grow from other things than phosphates like nitrates. What are your nitrates? What test kit are you using?

 

[cperry7467]

The DI resin would be what to look at. Do you have a mixed bed, single bed, etc after the RO membrane? I have a single bed of cation resin, then a bed of anion resin followed by a mixed bed for final polishing just in case anything slips through. Anion binds to phosphate I believe. I use the color changing pro series from BRS and it seems to work well.

 

[cperry7467]

Here is a BRS TV video that helped me understand RODI a bit better and what caused me to change my setup. I had problems with silica purges in a mixed bed causing diatom blooms but my water always showed 0 TDS. I just couldn't tell the mixed bed was exhausted, the color change wasn't significant.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...-upgraded-with-brs-pro-series-di-resin-brstv/

 

[Mastiffsrule]

A few thoughts.

Keep fighting like you said. You will find the right balance you need to get the tank back in line.l
As actinic mentioned , where are you on nitrate and you po4 is not cause for concern.
It would be good to see if there is an imbalance between the No3 and Po4.
When you said the storage bins show Po4: is that after mixed with salt or still just Rodi and what are you storing water in.
I would just check pumps or other maganets or possible sources of metal in the tank to be sure nothing is rusting in the water column.

With everyone online I am sure a solution will present itself.

 

[Colin_S]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
i've been aiming at getting my po4 around 0.02, i just tested my rodi and it came out at 0.1 so a cause of concern.
i've tested my water 15 times since the start of the year, my nitrate is stable around 10, and i'm testing it with Nyos. My Alk stable at 8.2. i use the Hanna for phosphorus and Alk.
my storage bins are only holding rodi water, and are plastic and clean.
The only items that make contact with the water are: power head, return pump, skimmer, heaters, thermometer, glass cleaner, pump for GFO & ATO. i've not noticed any rust from anywhere and the amount i clean it, i know evey inch of it more than i would like lol..
The resin is a mixed bed and gets changed every few months as i buy it in a 3L tub, (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008FXYS7U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

maybe i need to re think the rodi, and i'll watch the video asap. i'm a big fan of BRSTV
Also i'm looking at removing a lot of my lire rock and replacing it with marine pure rock, only keeping enough LR for cave, corals etc. no live rock no GHA
any more suggestions, please bring it on. I CAN'T STAND GREEN HAIR ALGAE...;Punch
i have uploaded my triton report in caseit shows anything, but its pretty much spot on

 

[Colin_S]

also to add,i clean all my equipment about every 8-10 months, including letting it run in vinegar etc

just watched the BRStv video, and that seems like a much better system. I'll be upgrading my RODI in the next week or 2, hoping that solves it

 

[Cory]

Algaes goong to grow until corals outcompete it. Otherwise you got a few choices that work imo. Diadema sea urchins. Or this pic with a shop vac hose attatched to your return pump. On the exit of the return zip tie a filter sock. Works great and is how i clean my tank now.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Several comments that might help. The first one is about the plastic storage containers; while I think people make too much of this, I've seen enough convincing tests on Brute trash cans that folks commonly use for storing RODI/seawater to be persuaded that there is a bit of phosphate incorporated into the plastic resin when it's molded - perhaps as a mold release agent.

Realize that it's not possible for any food to be phosphate free, since phosphate in various forms is integral to life itself. So no matter whether you're feeding clams, shrimp, copepods or even marine algae, all of it has phosphate. And typically, it's quite a lot of phosphate that's added with food every day compared to the water column's desired phosphate concentration. I'm sure we could start a major argument about what the free phosphate concentration in a reef tank should be, but generally folks agree that 0 ppb phosphate isn't a good thing, and presuming that algal growth is under control, many run in the 200 - 300 ppb range and think nothing of it (I'm one of those, btw).

Further, if you've a lot of algae in the tank, it may well be that your phosphate flux in the tank is a good deal higher than the water concentration would lead you to believe, principally because the algae are taking it up to fuel their growth. The source of that phosphate could be a lot of things, one of which is calcium phosphate precipitated on your live rock and/or sand. If the tank was run for long periods with little or no phosphate control, it can take a number of weeks of using chemical phosphate removers to actually show a significant difference; that's because as phosphate is removed from the water column by the chemical phosphate control, it's quickly replaced by the phosphate that's redissolving from a reservoir of precipitated calcium phosphate.

If your tank is really taken over by GHA, derbesia, or bryopsis, perhaps it's time to think about chemical control measures to kill the algae, followed by the use of chemical adsorption means to reduce the phosphate load in the tank. Probably the most popular means of chemical algae control at present is fluconazole - a single dose of it will wipe out most of the GHA, derbesia and especially, bryopsis in the tank. It does take a while to work in the case of hair algae - most of the reports that I've seen is in the 2-3 week time period.

 

[Colin_S]

Hi Dkeller, i definetley think something is up with my LR, thats why i'm looking at removing as much as i can and replace it with Marine Pure Rock that will sit in the sump.
I only cleaned the tank last weekend 4 days ago and already the GHA is growing on the LR. i only have a few small corals frags that are growing nicely but are still small, and even they have GHA growing on them, another thing im constantly working on to remove.
I will be upgrading my RODI, its always harder to find stuff in the UK, i wish BRS had a shop over here, are you listening BRS, an opoertunity to expand
I'm going to have a look at the fluconazola and do some reasearch into it. like i mentioned before, i have always suffered from bad GHA, no matter what i try, the only i have not tried is running it with no LR for obvious reasons. so next step will be Marine Pure Rock

thanks lovely people, keep the suggestions coming, with an army of knowledege......i will win this fight ;Woot

 

[Cory]

Seriously diademma sea urchns will decimate hair algae. At least ime.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Hi Dkeller, i definetley think something is up with my LR, thats why i'm looking at removing as much as i can and replace it with Marine Pure Rock that will sit in the sump.
I only cleaned the tank last weekend 4 days ago and already the GHA is growing on the LR. i only have a few small corals frags that are growing nicely but are still small, and even they have GHA growing on them, another thing im constantly working on to remove.
I will be upgrading my RODI, its always harder to find stuff in the UK, i wish BRS had a shop over here, are you listening BRS, an opoertunity to expand
I'm going to have a look at the fluconazola and do some reasearch into it. like i mentioned before, i have always suffered from bad GHA, no matter what i try, the only i have not tried is running it with no LR for obvious reasons. so next step will be Marine Pure Rock

thanks lovely people, keep the suggestions coming, with an army of knowledege......i will win this fight ;Woot

FYI - the components for hobbyist RODI systems are sold by a lot of folks in the US, and I'd imagine this would be the case in Europe as well. While BRS is an excellent company and I buy things almost exclusively from them, they're just an assembler of RODI packages, so it doesn't really matter all that much if you're buying the same components from other resellers.

I would be cautious about marinepure, maxspect's bio-blocks and other ceramic micro-porous media. Quite a lot of folks have reported high aluminum levels by ICP after using these for a period of time. It's not clear if those aluminum levels are really a problem, but folks that keep delicate corals like Acropora sp. generally don't want that aluminum in their system. There are plenty of other ways to reduce phosphate in a system, both biologically via a refugium or carbon dosing to promote bacterial growth and direct chemical adsorption/precipitation through the use of GFO and/or Lanthanum Chloride dosing.

 

[Colin_S]

i'm trying to find similar products in the uk,, i've managed to get most of it. I have read a few times about aluminium and also tests confirming that this is not true, but if it happens to someone in their tank who are we to argue the case.
My issue is not fighting the GHA but about preventing it from returning or finding the cause of it..
My next things to do are:
Dose fluconazola
change my rodi filters & membrane, (only changed them last month)
add the extra stage filtration, Cation & Anion

if i can get 0 phosphate from my RODI water then i can rule out any issues with my LR or anything else in my tank

i am seriously consideringa sea urchins, i do like them, but i need to know where the po4 is coming from..

 

[cperry7467]

FWIW, I know plenty who run phosphate .03-.1 without algae issues including myself so I'm not sure chasing phosphate will cure your issues. In fact reducing it to 0 is known to cause other issues if you have corals including pale and/or killing corals as they all need phosphate to live.

Have you considered a clean up crew that eats GHA to help beat it back? I have blue legged hermits and trochus snails that are highly active. I see some GHA in my sump occasionally but never in my display which I attribute it to my clean up crew.

 

[Colin_S]

Hi cperry, im not looking at achieving 0 phophate, but around the 0.02 - 0.05ish, at the moment i can't get near 0.02, currently i'm at 0.5. i have about 5 turbo snails and about 6 snails (go under the sand bend).
The GHA in my sump becomes so bad its unbelieveable. my Chaeto section where the light is placed is only 15inches x 10inches, depth 1 foot,, rough guid, and i can take handfuls out.
i have since done a bit of shopping and upgraded my rodi, including membrain, carbon filters and add an extra stage with diffrent resin. 1 concern was my water coming out of the rodi was 0.7, so all my top off water was putting that water back into the tank.
i've also added a large block of marine pure block, in time i will start to take some of the LR out.
i did think about dosing with fluconazole, but i've added a large ball of chaeto, even though reports say this does not affect it, i want to first get my water & rodi system behaving as it should. In my opinion, theres no point in dosing the water when the water i refill it will is just as bad.
maybe there is another issue at hand, but ill eliminate 1 problem at a time. this weekend i have 4 days off, so you can guess what i'll be doing.
once i have changed the rodi set up, ill test it all, make sure the water is low p04, perform water change, carry on testing then report back.

 

[Colin_S]

Here is a BRS TV video that helped me understand RODI a bit better and what caused me to change my setup. I had problems with silica purges in a mixed bed causing diatom blooms but my water always showed 0 TDS. I just couldn't tell the mixed bed was exhausted, the color change wasn't significant.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...-upgraded-with-brs-pro-series-di-resin-brstv/

Hello agaon, this is an older post, but i wanted to give feedback. i took your advise and re thought my rodi set. i have since followed the BRS guid and added 2 more stages with the same resin. i have since achieved 0.02 (ish) po4. i was using non colour changing mix resin.
becuaseof this i was unaware of known when it was deplieted so i used it for way too long without changing it.

i have taken lots of LR out of the DT and replaced with pure rock in my sump. my DT has better flow as a result of this.
I'm only cleaning GHA of my rocks once every couple of weeks maybe even once a month, compared to nearly a year and a half (ever since i started) its about 99% better. it's literally a small amount.
The sump is also better, i am cleaning it with a small water change every 2 months, running triton i try not to do water changes, but the section in the sump is only about 5%.

So, THANKS!!!! to everyone for their input, lesson for anyone suffering from this. Eliminate every possibility and test everything twice or three times, there is a cause for every issue.

i'm enjoying my tank so much more now,