Rotary Drum Filter for a Reef Tank?

[roibenami]

Ok, so... here's the thing...

A couple of years ago I was planning a koi pond... life happened at that ain't going to happen any time soon. I did however fall in love with reefing and currently have a 90g reef tank.

In my quest for a koi pond, I've made a some-might-say impulse purchase and personally imported from holland (I live in Israel) a RDF filter.

It's a 30k Liter per Hour RDF filter with an attached 200 liter fluidized bed chamber. Here's a link to the manufacturer's product page : http://www.aem-products.com/en/portfolio-view/aem-t30-totalfilter/

**however you may feel about the price you see there, please note that I paid double (shipping cost the same as the product)... and I feel much more strongly about it...

Well believe it or not but this thing is sitting in my backyard for the past year (mint condition). And I cannot but think that this would be awesome for a huge reef tank build.

I mean... this is a 40-micron level auto-cleaning mechanical filtration attached with a huge fluidized bed chamber... It's a beast and can handle a fully stocked 10,000 gallon koi pond.

However... I have never seen a reef tank with a RDF filter before, and I can see why some people would think it's an overkill and not worth the investment.

But since I already bought it and there's no possible scenario of selling it (there's probably 3 people in my entire country that would be interested in something like this...)... I thought it could be really cool if it's possible to use this for a reef tank.

So... I would love to get the community's thought on this - If i get a positive feedback here I might even be crazy enough to try it...

For those who aren't so familiar with RDF filters and how they work, here's a video of someone explaining his (not the same one as I have) :

 

[brandon429]

sure that's an easy analysis

harmless to use, adds to detritus cleaning chores, could make for one heck of a remote filter not for the fluidized bed which you wont need in reefing (additional aerobic filtration not required) but for various biomedia everyone likes to use these days

nitrate and phosphate commanders etc

your koi pond is a low surface area/high bioload setting where the max surface area would be found in the tumbling sand grain filter. since you wont have live rock and sand in the koi pond, all that waste needs to flow past high surface area aerobic zones so you wont have free ammonia

a sand filter is massive surface area


reefs are opposite, we don't need extra surface area to control free ammonia, the rock and sand is enough. Its ok to run this filter, but you'll need to keep it clean and that sand backfiltered and cleaned very often so 99% of reefers would use that device, just not the sand. they'd mod it into holding a giant ball of chaeto algae or enough GFO to strip the world bare white etc.

That filter will be redundant in addition to what your planned reef can already do without it. it will be harmless and neutral impact to your system, you just need to keep it clean and free of detritus.

waste and detritus need to leave your system, not relocate to another area and finish downgrading in the same water column, that's a nitrate pump's action.

the literal ability of that filter system is twofold on a reef tank: aerobic surface area to control ammonia, and oxygenation during all that turnover. Both are already maxed out in reef tanks of typical design/skimming etc. Its purely a redundant addition, same as if someone takes a 200 gallon reef tank running just fine and installs nine canister filters on the tank, that's a neutral event which is harmless and beyond what was needed for the two items that kind of filtration impacts.


aerobic filtration is for ammonia control, so we'd assess whether or not your planned bioload w exceed ammonia control abilities for a typical reef tank. Ive never seen it happen. due to the cleaning and waste holding factors Id rate it as a negative on a reef but it wont kill a reef or prevent you from growing coral. Its the 90's bioball thing going on here in a different way, all equivalent aerobic filtration schemes.

 

[roibenami]

sure that's an easy analysis

harmless to use, adds to detritus cleaning chores, could make for one heck of a remote filter not for the fluidized bed which you wont need in reefing (additional aerobic filtration not required) but for various biomedia everyone likes to use these days

nitrate and phosphate commanders etc

your koi pond is a low surface area/high bioload setting where the max surface area would be found in the tumbling sand grain filter. since you wont have live rock and sand in the koi pond, all that waste needs to flow past high surface area aerobic zones so you wont have free ammonia

a sand filter is massive surface area


reefs are opposite, we don't need extra surface area to control free ammonia, the rock and sand is enough. Its ok to run this filter, but you'll need to keep it clean and that sand backfiltered and cleaned very often so 99% of reefers would use that device, just not the sand. they'd mod it into holding a giant ball of chaeto algae or enough GFO to strip the world bare white etc.

That filter will be redundant in addition to what your planned reef can already do without it. it will be harmless and neutral impact to your system, you just need to keep it clean and free of detritus.

waste and detritus need to leave your system, not relocate to another area and finish downgrading in the same water column, that's a nitrate pump's action.

the literal ability of that filter system is twofold on a reef tank: aerobic surface area to control ammonia, and oxygenation during all that turnover. Both are already maxed out in reef tanks of typical design/skimming etc. Its purely a redundant addition, same as if someone takes a 200 gallon reef tank running just fine and installs nine canister filters on the tank, that's a neutral event which is harmless and beyond what was needed for the two items that kind of filtration impacts.


aerobic filtration is for ammonia control, so we'd assess whether or not your planned bioload w exceed ammonia control abilities for a typical reef tank. Ive never seen it happen. due to the cleaning and waste holding factors Id rate it as a negative on a reef but it wont kill a reef or prevent you from growing coral. Its the 90's bioball thing going on here in a different way, all equivalent aerobic filtration schemes.

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here... The fluidized bed chamber will probably be converted to a refugium or a cryptic area with live rock or just empty for additional water volume... but the issue I wanted your feedback is actually the RDF part (the drum mechanical filtration).

Keeping it clean won't be a problem because it is self cleaning and will only export particles that are larger than 40 micron... seems to me like that would help a lot of keeping a reef tank clean...

 

[kashman100]

My concern would be is what type of metal are the screws made of. Can see screws near on or near the drum on the product pictures

 

[brandon429]

RDF part (the drum mechanical filtration)

from that I discern even that portion of the filter is aerobic filtration, and that it will catch particles is that correct? What matters is where the particles of waste wind up. do they break down within that drum filter, or do you manually clean it? Im trying to discern which part of the drum filter doesn't apply to the above conditions. What action does the drum filter provide that we didn't list

refuge and cryptic sounds good, I knew there'd be a mod somehow. In the end as we detail the drum part it still seems to come down to what happens to particles retained by the filter. I would still rate the filter system as neutral to the tank's ability to make coral biomass or be better for oxygenation or circulation than present schemes we use.

If your filter was going to be made into a denitrification chamber that would have a huge impact in a neat way for the reef tank vs present filtration schemes that produce nitrate via aerobic means.

When you mention self cleaning, does that mean the filter has a separate hose outlet where particles that were caught are automatically washed out of the system and down a drain? I wanted to make sure self cleaning didn't mean particles break down within the water that goes back to the tank. I would be interested to see which part of this system wont be aerobic digestion in order to call it handy as a reef tank addition. how is it self cleaning?

 

[roibenami]

RDF part (the drum mechanical filtration)

from that I discern even that portion of the filter is aerobic filtration, and that it will catch particles is that correct? What matters is where the particles of waste wind up. do they break down within that drum filter, or do you manually clean it? Im trying to discern which part of the drum filter doesn't apply to the above conditions. What action does the drum filter provide that we didn't list

refuge and cryptic sounds good, I knew there'd be a mod somehow. In the end as we detail the drum part it still seems to come down to what happens to particles retained by the filter. I would still rate the filter system as neutral to the tank's ability to make coral biomass or be better for oxygenation or circulation than present schemes we use.

The drum sieve captures all the waste inside the drum... once the electrode senses a water raise (will happen multiple times per day) it will initial a full turn... so the drum will turn 360 degrees while several pressure valves flushes the drum from above. below the pressure valves and inside the drum is a pipe that sends all of that water and stuff that came our of the filter straight to the sewage line.

That's what i meant by self-cleaning. all the stuff the sieve captures are flushed to the sewage several times a day and are removed from the water column.

Surely you could see why running your system water several times an hour through a 40 micron filter that removes everything it catches automatically several times a day - would be a good thing.

Also I don't really see how that is aerobic biological filtration... simple mechanical filtration...

About the metal screws... on the inside everything is covered in plastic.

 

[brandon429]

regarding detritus and automation and a sep hose to drain, awesome and yep would be handy. I had deemed it aerobic since nitrogen gas production wasn't the endpoint. you are saying its a detritus remover by design, sounds good.

it would be a fun experiment to see if it helps in reducing maintenance. if it works as well Im curious why the activity hasn't caught on for reefing, we've been trying everything under the sun

the number one thing Id want on my reef taken from a pond is the giant UV sterilizer, and not everyone would agree with that but it would be what I would use.

 

[reefwiser]

This unit has too much metal and would rust in short order killing on animals in the pool.
I have seen units like this made of plastic in large aquariums but nothing at the hobbyist level.
There is a product the Theiling Roller Mat mat filter that does the mechanical filtration part of this type of unit.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Write the company and ask if it is saltwater safe! That should be an easy question for them to answer for you.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use it if there is no risk of any exposed metal corroding and there isn't any brass parts in the pump or no brass bushings. Then chemically it is likely ok.

Most folks run a 200 or 100 micron sock, 40 microns is quite a bit smaller, I'm sure your water would be clearer, but in a reef system that's kind of a catch 22, most of the corals appreciate some suspended particles. So that's something to consider too!

Why did you give up on the pond? With that filter (if it's saltwater safe) then you could build a 10,000 gallon lagoon in your home

 

[roibenami]

For anyone concerned with metal parts... please understand that I have this lying in my backyard and I know for a fact that it has no metal parts where water would be touching them...

Actually, This is exactly like the thrilling rollermat only without all the drawbacks... no need for replacement material, gives you better filtration (lower micron rating for the sieve), and doesn't hold all the nasty stuff in a place you can smell it. I really don't see why not make this at the hobby level... If people bought the thrilling rollermat for a pretty penny they should spend more here.

As for the suspended particles being food... I don't think we know exactly how much of the POM (particular organic matter) in our water is food and how much of it is waste. I personally believe in the high input high export game and for that I would highly appreciate something like that...

As for the pond... well there's another $10k to invest that I couldn't come up with... and at this point I would probably have better things to do with the money (like buying corals...)

 

[Rick.45cal]

I say go for it! Worst case you take it off and use something else!

 

[Rick.45cal]

Start a build thread for it! I would be very interested to see what you discover.

 

[Cameron the Bee]

Any updates on this

 

[ronald jeremy]

Bump. Replacing filter socks with an RDF seems like a no-brainer to me.

It is the epitome of Ultra-Low-Maintenance: It would do the same thing as a rollermat, without the need to ever change a roll.

The only thing that comes to mind to be figured out is how much (if any) excess spray from the spray bar makes it below the collection tray.

My understanding is you can fit RDF's with different micron mesh sizes.

Would love to see someone try it!

 

[milonedp]

I know this thread is old but I was wondering about the same thing, however my question was more about the water used in the self cleaning process.

If it's taken from the tank how are you replacing to maintain salinity as some of that is also going out the drain.

If it's from a freshwater hook up then 1. are you going to use RO and wouldn't you need a huge system to keep up and 2. how do you maintain salinity as that water is also going to mix with system water.

I'd love to find a way to make this work. Thoughts?

 

[dechez]

I've put much thought into this system myself but the problem is the drum cleaning cycle it's going to screw with the salinity because of the fresh water Rinse

 

[laverda]

That doesn’t seem like a problem. Just us saltwater from the tank and replace with the same amount of fresh salt water. Basically you end up with an auto water change system too.
I could see salt build up on the spray bar being a issue over time. You could possibly run your ATO through it to prevent salt build up. Or just take it out and clean it every so often.

 

[ravi197699]

Hello folks, I just read the entire thread, best way to start day with cup of tea and no one is around to disturb, I have been looking into this for a while and there are plenty of drum filters available based on GPH rating to size the drum specs, rinsing the drum with RO water should be fine if your system is large enough and do enough evaporation and top off then if it should be fine, if some of the ro water from rinse mixes with saltwater then it should not be too much of concern, I have been taking to company who makes these drum filters in various sizes and main components are pvc food grade and screen comes in various microns, 10,20,40,80,100,200 and they can provide additional screens which are easily interchangeable and hardware used is stainless steel 316L, I would love to try this on my system but my concern is when wash cycle happens it will be loud especially when it is night time and everything else is dead silent, has anyone in this thread used this and how loud is it?

 

[Snoopy 67]

I have seen a thread where someone has this running on a reef tank with great success.
Just can't remember where.

 

[brandon429]

I have never seen this used in reefing for 24 years observation. the op didn't even set one up either it seems.

they won't be harmful for sure, but curious: what are you hoping to accomplish with one

a way of catching detritus, or to lower ammonia in the reef tank?

these filters are simply things people talk about but never actually do.

reef tanks don't run low on surface area without them I've always thought.

its ok to catch detritus in them, but if you have a sandbed it'll still catch waste and require removal. these filters don't clean out reef tanks, they only deal in water pumped to them.