ROYAL GRAMMA DYING?

[emilyruthwinsor]

My 10 month old Royal Gramma was laying on her side and not moving after not eating today, I scooped her out and into ‘fish jail’ and she still managed to try and get away and jump out of the tank when I tried to get her. Since December (last time I added anything to my tank) she’s been hiding in her rock but used to be a very social fish. I got an Orange Spotted Goby around this time who did keep trying to go into her cave so I wonder if that’s what forced her to stay inside. I haven’t seen her eat in a while

Yesterday, she had moved to a cave on the other side of the tank but this evening she was as described above. Any ideas on how to help her?

Parameters
Kh - 8
Calcium - 440 (normally 420 so high but nothing crazy)
Magnesium - 1280
Nitrite - 0
PH - 8

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

Update: I just moved the tank lid to test the parameters and she jolted back in her little fish jail so definitely still has a little life in her yet!

 

[JTP424]

I've had a similar scare with my Gramma, how large of a tank?
Even if your parameters are reading ok, if you have extra clean saltwater I'd do a large water change and a few small water changes over the next couple of days.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Has the fish been eating well previously?
Any change in appearance?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Need pictures taken in white light preferably a video. Any other new additions to your tank? #fishmedic

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

Need pictures taken in white light preferably a video. Any other new additions to your tank? #fishmedic

She’s had the mark on her head for a while now. No other white spots and not ich, we think it could be a graze from her little cave and moving away from my goby but have no real clue to be honest.

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

Has the fish been eating well previously?
Any change in appearance?

Before she was a recluse in her cave she was eating very well, would beat every other fish to the first bite!

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

I've had a similar scare with my Gramma, how large of a tank?
Even if your parameters are reading ok, if you have extra clean saltwater I'd do a large water change and a few small water changes over the next couple of days.

I will try this! I have plenty of bacteria and algae on my rocks and at the back of the tank so wouldn’t say it’s “extra clean” but worth a shot!
Thank you!

 

[Salty_Northerner]

The poor little fella looks like something's been bullying her. From your description it sounds like she's almost happier in fish jail correct?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I will try this! I have plenty of bacteria and algae on my rocks and at the back of the tank so wouldn’t say it’s “extra clean” but worth a shot!
Thank you!

I can't see much in the pictures or video - the mark on the top of the head, as you mentioned....but the gramma is pretty thin, not what I would expect for a longer term captive animal. No doubt, that is a result of it going off feed at some point, as you also noted.

Trouble is - those are non-descript symptoms, they do not point to a single, treatable issue. Your best bet would be to isolate it (its own tank would be best, a tank divider second best, and the "fishy jail" the 3rd best option. Then, see if you can coax it into feeding better.

Jay

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

I can't see much in the pictures or video - the mark on the top of the head, as you mentioned....but the gramma is pretty thin, not what I would expect for a longer term captive animal. No doubt, that is a result of it going off feed at some point, as you also noted.

Trouble is - those are non-descript symptoms, they do not point to a single, treatable issue. Your best bet would be to isolate it (its own tank would be best, a tank divider second best, and the "fishy jail" the 3rd best option. Then, see if you can coax it into feeding better.

Jay

I will keep trying to feed her - I left some flakes in the jail with her friends overnight as that used to be what she would rush to eat so will see if any of it has gone by the morning and try again.

i wonder if as the above comment says she may be being bullied but as she hides in her rock we haven’t seen.

May try to re landscape my rocks tomorrow to make a few more hiding holes for her and my other fish that like to hide!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I will keep trying to feed her - I left some flakes in the jail with her friends overnight as that used to be what she would rush to eat so will see if any of it has gone by the morning and try again.

i wonder if as the above comment says she may be being bullied but as she hides in her rock we haven’t seen.

May try to re landscape my rocks tomorrow to make a few more hiding holes for her and my other fish that like to hide!

Try live brine shrimp if you can get some, or chopped up frozen mysids, just to try and entice it to feed....fish eat flakes, but they don't love them....

Jay

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

The poor little fella looks like something's been bullying her. From your description it sounds like she's almost happier in fish jail correct?

I’m not too sure yet as she’s staying pretty still but think it’s from the shock of being caught. Am going to leave her with some food overnight and see how she is come the morning

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

Try live brine shrimp if you can get some, or chopped up frozen mysids, just to try and entice it to feed....fish eat flakes, but they don't love them....

Jay

I have frozen mysis and brine that I can try, this fish has just weirdly always preferred flakes so that was my first port of call but will try some frozen bits tomorrow! Thank you!

 

[vetteguy53081]

She’s had the mark on her head for a while now. No other white spots and not ich, we think it could be a graze from her little cave and moving away from my goby but have no real clue to be honest.

This is not a parameter issue but looking at the one pic under white lighting, the fish appears to be a victim of aggression as its scales are raised and/or damaged.
What other fish are in the tank with it?
Additionally, hard to see through the netting but:
Is fish breathing normal or Labored?
Does it swim or just lay in one spot?

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

This is not a parameter issue but looking at the one pic under white lighting, the fish appears to be a victim of aggression as its scales are raised and/or damaged.
What other fish are in the tank with it?
Additionally, hard to see through the netting but:
Is fish breathing normal or Labored?
Does it swim or just lay in one spot?

We have 2 clowns, a cleaner shrimp, 2 turbo snails, a Valentini Puffer and an Orange Spotted Goby. It gets along fine with the clowns and was in with them for months before any of the others. The only fish that could get to it in the cave is the Goby however has never been aggressive to any other fish.

It was laboured earlier but I think that was from the stress of being caught and seems to be returning to normal now.

Again, she was in one spot after initially being caught but is beginning to slowly swim around the bottom of the net again.

What would you suggest with the aggression? Should I make her some more caves to hide in?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

This is not a parameter issue but looking at the one pic under white lighting, the fish appears to be a victim of aggression as its scales are raised and/or damaged.
What other fish are in the tank with it?
Additionally, hard to see through the netting but:
Is fish breathing normal or Labored?
Does it swim or just lay in one spot?

Yeah I am with you on this one. And some sort of aggression going on for sure. With the scales on top of its head missing some attack of something got a hold of her.

I have an orchard dottyback and that fish knows the ins and outs of the entire rock scape. I've never seen them once hit himself against a rock going into his cave or anything.

If nothing attacked the royal maybe by coincidence something in the rocks shifted and it was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe a piece of Rock came down and unfortunately she was the victim and got hit.

 

[vetteguy53081]

We have 2 clowns, a cleaner shrimp, 2 turbo snails, a Valentini Puffer and an Orange Spotted Goby. It gets along fine with the clowns and was in with them for months before any of the others. The only fish that could get to it in the cave is the Goby however has never been aggressive to any other fish.

It was laboured earlier but I think that was from the stress of being caught and seems to be returning to normal now.

Again, she was in one spot after initially being caught but is beginning to slowly swim around the bottom of the net again.

What would you suggest with the aggression? Should I make her some more caves to hide in?

Isolate to provide healing and then Find out who the aggressor is. The labored breathing can be from stress and/or net capture.
On trick to find who aggressor is -
set your cell phone on video mode for about 40 mins and drop a little food and walk away - YOU MUST walk away as they know youre there. Often the aggressor is a bully at feeding time.
Review the video and see who it may be. Clowns would be my suspects, but bully fish are often on their best behavior in your presence and will show aggresion in your absence, hense using the cell video

 

[emilyruthwinsor]

Isolate to provide healing and then Find out who the aggressor is. The labored breathing can be from stress and/or net capture.
On trick to find who aggressor is -
set your cell phone on video mode for about 40 mins and drop a little food and walk away - YOU MUST walk away as they know youre there. Often the aggressor is a bully at feeding time.
Review the video and see who it may be. Clowns would be my suspects, but bully fish are often on their best behavior in your presence and will show aggresion in your absence, hense using the cell video

I will give this a go at feeding time, thank you so much!

 

[Sebastiancrab]

She’s had the mark on her head for a while now. No other white spots and not ich, we think it could be a graze from her little cave and moving away from my goby but have no real clue to be honest.

It looks like missing scales to me. If you can easily do it, I would put her in a quarantine tank until she heals which should be fairly quickly. My royal gramma rules the roost and she jealously guards her caves. Make sure she has her own adequate hiding places.