Royal Gramma harem

[Makers Marc]

Any suggestions on a varied diet?

We are currently feeding Cobalt Marine Omni, Cobalt shrimp and veggie (pygmy angelfish) and Cyclops, PE Mysis, San Francisco Bay Mussels.

Thanks!

Mine only eat mysis, frozen cyclopeeze or frozen capelin roe.

Never could get them to take any dry food and they are still vibrant.

I will say though, my trio lasted 2 yrs together. I initially bought 1 larger fat 1.5-2 inch one, and two tiny 0.5 inch ones.

The larger one died, while always displaying dominance, actually died first. The other 2 are around still.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Then there were 6.

Had to work out of town for a week.

The one that was mostly hiding in the back far right corner and the last to get to food is now missing.

When I feed I sit there and shave off small portions and watch everyone to make sure they eat.
Better half drops half or a quarter cube in the tank and watches them eat. Or not.

The smallest doesn't get much food. Too timid and looks, not skeletal, but not as fat as the others.
I feed until it gets some.
Hoping it will get bigger and fatter.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Bleah, avoiding the temptation to return to LFS and get 3 more new tiny ones from their latest batch.

Settled for a new mushroom while I was there yesterday.
[emoji849]

 

[norfolkgarden]

Got a chance to stay home and do paperwork all day for work.
Spent a fair amount of time just watching the tank.
[emoji848]

I need to remember that, in a 75 gallon tank, 6 gallons per 3" fish is a golden rule.

I can cram them in thicker than that, but they all get skittish, even with different niches.

Kind of funny how the various "harem" fish seem to do better when they have a common 'enemy' to be concerned about.
They still spend time poking at each other but it is not as determined.

The Royal Gramma's enemy in my tank is a pygmy angelfish.
The angel fish is almost as annoying as a damsel.

Just a lazy happy day. Hope everyone is doing well.
[emoji4]

 

[norfolkgarden]

Then there were 5.

Unless 1 is taking a 3 day hunger strike. Now down to 5 royal grammas.

Strange part is it isn't the tiniest one missing. Missing one of the midsize royals.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Then there were 5.

Unless 1 is taking a 3 day hunger strike. Now down to 5 royal grammas.

Strange part is it isn't the tiniest one missing. Missing one of the midsize royals.

Go little guy! I usually root for the underdog.

 

[mta_morrow]

How is the rest of the group doing?

Did you add any more?

 

[norfolkgarden]

How is the rest of the group doing?

Did you add any more?

Um, did I leave well enough alone?
[emoji849]
No, of course not.
[emoji17]

Good news is I have been working in town and home a lot during the day.

5 was too few for the 'cloud' effect I wanted for the tank.

Wanted more than 6 and was afraid adding just 2 new ones would get picked on too much.
Ended up adding 3 new ones, all in medium to smaller sizes then the 2 largest existing royal grammas.
Total of 8 royal grammas in the tank now.

The slight size differences completely jumbled the existing hierarchy enough that everything worked out OK so far.
Homes have changed hands and multiple new holes have been appropriated.

I have been home a lot during the day when they are all active and they have all been fed heavily.
Feeding from 2 different locations simultaneously.
8 fish is still a small enough number, with the size differences, that I can keep track of them all and make sure that each individual fish has had a chance to get some food. Partly because they post up in different parts of the tank.

The yellow tang is still so small that it doesn't have the chance to exert their usual Sunny personality. It tries, but even some of the Grammas are bigger than the yellow tang.
The copperband doesn't really influence the Grammas either way but they move out of its way.
The clown fish pair, saphire damsel, the pintail wrasse and the Lubbock's fairy wrasse are neither a plus or minus in reference to the Grammas behavior.

Lol, but the flame hawkfish really likes "bowling for grammas".
It will plow through a group of the Grammas just for the fun of it on it's usual circuit around the tank.

The 3 new Grammas have been in the tank 9 days.
So far everyone has settled in well.
The 3 new ones are continuing to grow fatter on black worms and a varied frozen diet, along with everyone else.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Forgot to mention we finally trapped the pygmy angelfish.
Good riddance. Back to LFS.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Then there were 5.

Unless 1 is taking a 3 day hunger strike. Now down to 5 royal grammas.

Strange part is it isn't the tiniest one missing. Missing one of the midsize royals.

@norfolkgarden what's the name of that red with black top fish ? Looks funny..

 

[mta_morrow]

@norfolkgarden what's the name of that red with black top fish ? Looks funny..

That’s the flame hawkfish he mentioned. Cool fish with an awesome personality!

 

[mta_morrow]

Um, did I leave well enough alone?
[emoji849]
No, of course not.
[emoji17]

Good news is I have been working in town and home a lot during the day.

5 was too few for the 'cloud' effect I wanted for the tank.

Wanted more than 6 and was afraid adding just 2 new ones would get picked on too much.
Ended up adding 3 new ones, all in medium to smaller sizes then the 2 largest existing royal grammas.
Total of 8 royal grammas in the tank now.

The slight size differences completely jumbled the existing hierarchy enough that everything worked out OK so far.
Homes have changed hands and multiple new holes have been appropriated.

I have been home a lot during the day when they are all active and they have all been fed heavily.
Feeding from 2 different locations simultaneously.
8 fish is still a small enough number, with the size differences, that I can keep track of them all and make sure that each individual fish has had a chance to get some food. Partly because they post up in different parts of the tank.

The yellow tang is still so small that it doesn't have the chance to exert their usual Sunny personality. It tries, but even some of the Grammas are bigger than the yellow tang.
The copperband doesn't really influence the Grammas either way but they move out of its way.
The clown fish pair, saphire damsel, the pintail wrasse and the Lubbock's fairy wrasse are neither a plus or minus in reference to the Grammas behavior.

Lol, but the flame hawkfish really likes "bowling for grammas".
It will plow through a group of the Grammas just for the fun of it on it's usual circuit around the tank.

The 3 new Grammas have been in the tank 9 days.
So far everyone has settled in well.
The 3 new ones are continuing to grow fatter on black worms and a varied frozen diet, along with everyone else.

Great update and glad it’s working out.

Do they spend a lot of time out and about?

Do they venture away from their “spot”?

 

[norfolkgarden]

Great update and glad it’s working out.

Do they spend a lot of time out and about?

Do they venture away from their “spot”?

Yes. Surprisingly the largest moves over the entire tank during parts of the day.

Along with the wrasses, they are all very daylight oriented.
Tank runs 12 hours white with a 15 minute ramp up and down and 10% blues for an additional 4 hours.
(Considering cutting this back but haven't yet.)
I feed at 6:20 am before work and then God knows whenever I get home, and again, usually 9ish at night.
Copperband is up for feeding 24/7.... racing back and forth in front of the tank until I relent. Worse than a begging dog.

My hours are flexible and often just bizarre.
The fish have no set feeding schedule.
If I am home, then another small feeding every few hours.

They have been fed 4 times so far today. I feed until too much food just floats away downward for the 8 serpent stars.
If I'm working 20 hours they can skip a day except 1 feeding.
No pattern whatsoever.


2 of the new ones stay close to their hard won homes so far.
Most are out a few inches.
With only a 4' tank span and 8 fish, usually at least 5 or 6 of the grammas are visible at any time.
Most will each cover an overlapping 12" area.
Surprisingly the tiniest can get the alpha to back down sometimes. The bigger fish are the usually boss. But not 100% of the time.

 

[norfolkgarden]

@norfolkgarden what's the name of that red with black top fish ? Looks funny..

Flame hawkfish. Definitely a favorite!
[emoji4]

It keeps the cleaner shrimp and the blood red fire shrimp hidden a lot.
[emoji53]

Haven't been able to keep a flame and a longnose hawkfish in the same tank for more than a year.
[emoji53]

Our original longnose lived 5 years. Including a major crash an another later minor one.
Lost a longnose pair and 1 flame at various times since then.

 

[mta_morrow]

Yes. Surprisingly the largest moves over the entire tank during parts of the day.

Along with the wrasses, they are all very daylight oriented.
Tank runs 12 hours white with a 15 minute ramp up and down and 10% blues for an additional 4 hours.
(Considering cutting this back but haven't yet.)
I feed at 6:20 am before work and then God knows whenever I get home, and again, usually 9ish at night.
Copperband is up for feeding 24/7.... racing back and forth in front of the tank until I relent. Worse than a begging dog.

My hours are flexible and often just bizarre.
The fish have no set feeding schedule.
If I am home, then another small feeding every few hours.

They have been fed 4 times so far today. I feed until too much food just floats away downward for the 8 serpent stars.
If I'm working 20 hours they can skip a day except 1 feeding.
No pattern whatsoever.


2 of the new ones stay close to their hard won homes so far.
Most are out a few inches.
With only a 4' tank span and 8 fish, usually at least 5 or 6 of the grammas are visible at any time.
Most will each cover an overlapping 12" area.
Surprisingly the tiniest can get the alpha to back down sometimes. The bigger fish are the usually boss. But not 100% of the time.

Thanks for taking the time to write all of this. I may be shutting down and moving again soon and very much want to do a full harem like you are doing on a restart.

Following along and looking forward to more updates and pics!

 

[Ruben's Reef]

I like the royal gramma but didn't know that you can have a few of them without trouble.

 

[norfolkgarden]

I like the royal gramma but didn't know that you can have a few of them without trouble.

I am still learning from other people's research.
[emoji4]

Starting with *tiny* fish (1" or less?) is what makes it possible at all.
It is my understanding that starting with fish larger than 1.5" (almost guaranteed already male in a fish store environment) will fail.
[emoji53]

Looking at a local LFS tank gave me the idea (and eventually the fish!) and further online searches and asking questions said it is possible under the right circumstances.
This thread is to document their interactions.
[emoji4]

 

[NY_Caveman]

Lol, but the flame hawkfish really likes "bowling for grammas".
It will plow through a group of the Grammas just for the fun of it on it's usual circuit around the tank.

Ha ha ha! Now that is awesome! I knew flame hawkfish were jerks, but never considered they were such entertaining jerks.

“Not going to attack you, just being a jerk. Top of the morning to ya!”

Great write up. Thanks for all the details.

 

[Maritimer]

Very cool thread ... this is something I'd love to see in my 220, probably with about five-seven grammas.

Nice to read such in-depth reportage of your success!

~Bruce

 

[Makers Marc]

Yes. Surprisingly the largest moves over the entire tank during parts of the day.

Along with the wrasses, they are all very daylight oriented.
Tank runs 12 hours white with a 15 minute ramp up and down and 10% blues for an additional 4 hours.
(Considering cutting this back but haven't yet.)
I feed at 6:20 am before work and then God knows whenever I get home, and again, usually 9ish at night.
Copperband is up for feeding 24/7.... racing back and forth in front of the tank until I relent. Worse than a begging dog.

My hours are flexible and often just bizarre.
The fish have no set feeding schedule.
If I am home, then another small feeding every few hours.

They have been fed 4 times so far today. I feed until too much food just floats away downward for the 8 serpent stars.
If I'm working 20 hours they can skip a day except 1 feeding.
No pattern whatsoever.


2 of the new ones stay close to their hard won homes so far.
Most are out a few inches.
With only a 4' tank span and 8 fish, usually at least 5 or 6 of the grammas are visible at any time.
Most will each cover an overlapping 12" area.
Surprisingly the tiniest can get the alpha to back down sometimes. The bigger fish are the usually boss. But not 100% of the time.

Something interesting to observe.

I Bought a group of 3 where one was 5x the size of the other two. It constantly was exerting its dominance over the other two for the first 6 months.

But then seemed to get weaker and weaker from doing so, that it perished first.

Lots of factors come to play in each of out tanks. Space and caves were not an issue, nor was underfeeding.