Royal Gramma in QT not doing well suddenly

[FLReef32043]

I have a Royal Gramma that is in QT for the last several weeks. Swimming out in front and good eater until this morning. I could not find it and finally noticed it sort of hiding between the rear glass and the heater. Would not come out to eat. This afternoon feeding (2 PM) again the fish would not come out to eat but seemed to at least "sort of" lunge at a piece of mysis as it floated by.

Being concerned I moved the heater and the fish darted somewhere out of sight and within moments of my putting the heater back was back behind the heater. I thought perhaps just hiding? But shortly after that it was down on the bottom of the tank just laying in the corner for a moment.


Then what looked like some "bumping" (almost as if it could not "get up") and shot back up to the heater.


Tank has copper in it so I can't get an ammonia reading but it is 2 days past water change time (I do 10% of a 20 gallon a week) and I tend to feed a little heavier than I should.

2 days ago (evening of 12th) these were my parameters using API test kits (new):
Read (temp, salinity, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alk, phosphate, calcium (I did the full test to see what it read)

QTF

API

78.6

1.025

7.4

copper

0.50

10

14

1.00

480

I'll do a W/C this evening and I wouldn't be overly worried except this fish is (was!) my best eater.

Tank mates - Firefish, lawnmower blenny, watchman goby and 2 bangai cardinals.

 

[Webslinger]

Does he have a place to hide?

 

[FLReef32043]

Forgot to add - food is frozen mysis mixed with Focus, General Cure, Vita chem and dash of garlic guard.

Other fish are all eating normally and swimming as before.

 

[FLReef32043]

Does he have a place to hide?

There are three seaprate 1 1/4" piece of PVC in the tank for hiding places. he has slept behind them when the lights are on and comes out swimming around when the lights come on until this morning.

That was my first thought but he didn't come out to eat which normally happens before the food is in the water.

 

[Zionas]

I’m not sure as I’m a total newbie myself, but maybe try adding a couple (2-3) pieces of PVC pipe so it’ll have a place to dart into?


Edit: Never mind. I have no idea. Sorry.

 

[Webslinger]

He looks a little stressed. There a lot of fish in there, he needs his own hiding spot which is the heater now. 1 1/4 isn't a good hiding spot for them find some 1/4 size. The firefish is bothering him.

 

[FLReef32043]

He looks a little stressed. There a lot of fish in there, he needs his own hiding spot which is the heater now. 1 1/4 isn't a good hiding spot for them find some 1/4 size. The firefish is bothering him.

I have some 1/2" pieces and some 3/4" I'll do some replacements with those - TY for the input.

 

[dwest]

I’ll be honest, I don’t trust any copper test except Hanna. I know that before the Hanna kit, I was overdosing and under dosing copper. I have no idea if that is a problem with your gramma, but I know the last fish that I quarantined before Hanna was a couple of clownfish. They both stopped eating during quarantine until I dropped back the copper level with a water change. Good luck. Grammas are great fish.

Oh, and I also highly recommend the seachem ammonia badge so you can see the ammonia level at all times.

 

[FLReef32043]

I’ll be honest, I don’t trust any copper test except Hanna. I know that before the Hanna kit, I was overdosing and under dosing copper. I have no idea if that is a problem with your gramma, but I know the last fish that I quarantined before Hanna was a couple of clownfish. They both stopped eating during quarantine until I dropped back the copper level with a water change. Good luck. Grammas are great fish.

Oh, and I also highly recommend the seachem ammonia badge so you can see the ammonia level at all times.

my copper testing is whit a Hanna checker I also have the badge in place (not because of hte copper that was a fluke lucky action on my part as I never knew copper would make the ammonia test unreliable) and it is showing Safe.

Today was a push from 1.64 up to 2.0 to start the 30 days therapeutic level (been watching them the last couple of weeks). then this. I'm hoping this isn't the copper but I haven't seen any references to Royal Grammas being sensitive to copper treatment.

 

[dwest]

Great on the Hanna, I thought you were using api for some reason. From your copper levels, it seems you are using chelated copper. Is that right? I believe they are sensitive to ionic copper.

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart) The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[FLReef32043]

Great on the Hanna, I thought you were using api for some reason. From your copper levels, it seems you are using chelated copper. Is that right? I believe they are sensitive to ionic copper.

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart) The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be...

www.reef2reef.com

Well now ya got me I think so? I am using Copper Power and i seem to remember hearing that was chelated copper - although I should probably look that up to understand what it really means.

I'm using API for the other testing. But I had read that everything but Hanna was "color based" and hard to truly use and that copper levels were pretty significant so I spent and got the Hanna.

 

[lagatbezan]

I have used copper power on them with levels at 2.2-2.4 with no issues. It does seem stressed to me as well. Royal grammas tend to be really shy specially if they don’t have a place they feel safe and secure in hiding. In my experience pvc pipes don’t really offer that to them since they feel exposed. If you have a couple of small pieces of rocks you can put in there for it to hide under it that would be ideal.

 

[Big G]

Also consider adding a couple of plastic aquarium plants. Some fish really like hiding among the leaves.

 

[dwest]

Well now ya got me I think so? I am using Copper Power and i seem to remember hearing that was chelated copper - although I should probably look that up to understand what it really means.

I'm using API for the other testing. But I had read that everything but Hanna was "color based" and hard to truly use and that copper levels were pretty significant so I spent and got the Hanna.

Copper power is chelated. All good.

 

[FLReef32043]

I have used copper power on them with levels at 2.2-2.4 with no issues. It does seem stressed to me as well. Royal grammas tend to be really shy specially if they don’t have a place they feel safe and secure in hiding. In my experience pvc pipes don’t really offer that to them since they feel exposed. If you have a couple of small pieces of rocks you can put in there for it to hide under it that would be ideal.

Thank you and to all who have chimed in. Stress I can deal with. Losing a fish after bonding for a couple of weeks would upset me.

I do think that the other comment about plants sort of set me back a bit But I guess overall it is no different than having coral to hide around.

I do have a couple of spare rocks I had planned to bust up for rubble, I'll try to get a couple of larger pieces and get a cave or some sort of refuge for the fist. Guess I'll have to make two sets - one for now and one for after the copper.

 

[FLReef32043]

As an update: Stress did indeed seem to be the issue. The RG went from corner to corner and seems to float depending on where it feels safe. I never see it out in the water column as I did when I first put it into quarantine.

For the first time today though I did see it grab up a few pieces of shrimp (yesterday I noticed the food drive - just would not come out to get anything).

So things are hopeful. I purchased an isolation tank so if worse comes to worse I can set up a separate QT for the RG and hopefully keep it happy. For the moment (after seeing it eat) I'm watching.

Thank you to all who chimed in while I was in panic mode!