Run away heating despite unplugging the heater.

kwf1800 · Jul 4, 2023

I noticed a few weeks ago that my warmest tank (Discus and rare plecos tank) was heating past where I wanted the temp. So I started by turning down the heater.small increments at first. But eventually all the way down. Still not really rising but a few degrees past where I feel comfortable it being. It was around 86 degrees f. I want it at 84-84.5. the discus will be fine at this temp. But they do not need it that high. And I do have an array of plecos. Some will be fine. Others it's getting to be high for yem in my opinion. So I unplug the heater completely. Now I have a digital thermometer. And I have an old style batteryless one that sticks to the inside. They both concur. And it was not a panic situation at that point. But I been keeping a close eye on it. I just checked it and it is now 89.2. Now. Room temp not over 80 at any point. It's a 50 gallon tank. I have a "up to 100gallon tank" Pentax hang on filter. A 45-75 gallon tank circulator at the bottom level. A 20-45 gallon tank circulator opposite it and mid way up the water column. I also have a Pentax internal heater. It's pretty big. I think for around my tank size recommendation. The light is off. Though it's led so no way it's causing the heat. I clean the filters constantly. Every other day. I have, admittedly, an overstocked tank. But I compensate by doing 30-40% water change every 2-3 days depending on how much feeding. I also use lots of different buffers and additives that I have deemed necessary over the years. If I can't put my nose right up to the water and smell deeply. I expect to smell absolutely nothing or I have a problem. So pristine water cleanliness. Slightly acidic water. I know some of these facts have nothing to do with what I'm wondering. I just want to let everyone know why I have filters that can run by themselves and still be enough. And multiple circulators. Well I am stumped. I have now put my hand in the water and wrap my hand around each circulator or motor of any kind. None are hot to the touch. Or even warmer than what I'm already feeling in the water. It hasn't been more than a day at 89 plus degrees. I know if I can get a hold of this situation to fish should be okay. Are of course just fine in that temperature. Others not so much. In my personal opinion even the warmest water freshwater fish don't need anything over 84°. I feel like people often over estimate what warm water fish temperature is supposed to be. Anyway I don't often post things online. Usually if I have questions I just referenced fish keeping encyclopedias and other books or even trusted internet sources on occasion. But I am absolutely at a loss at this point and what to do. I feel is nothing external from the tank that is causing us. I have a another 50 gallon tank no more than four feet away from this one and it's temperature it's fine. I try to keep that one at about 81.5. it is up a degree of two over that. But it's been there for years and occasionally that does happen. But it always goes back down and it never rises more than what the fish will be comfortable in. The problem tank is by a window but the blinds are always closed. So sunlight is out. Now my bubbler setup is warm. The actual pumping apparatus that's outside and underneath the tank. But just cuz I don't know what else to do I held it in my hand. And it's warm but I don't think it's even temperature the water. So I'm also wondering if maybe the bubbler is at 90° at the absolute most. So maybe the bubbles are coming out that hot? To me that just sounds insane. But this whole thing is beginning to sound that way. Anyone have any thoughts?

kwf1800 · Jul 4, 2023

kwf1800 said:
I noticed a few weeks ago that my warmest tank (Discus and rare plecos tank) was heating past where I wanted the temp. So I started by turning down the heater.small increments at first. But eventually all the way down. Still not really rising but a few degrees past where I feel comfortable it being. It was around 86 degrees f. I want it at 84-84.5. the discus will be fine at this temp. But they do not need it that high. And I do have an array of plecos. Some will be fine. Others it's getting to be high for yem in my opinion. So I unplug the heater completely. Now I have a digital thermometer. And I have an old style batteryless one that sticks to the inside. They both concur. And it was not a panic situation at that point. But I been keeping a close eye on it. I just checked it and it is now 89.2. Now. Room temp not over 80 at any point. It's a 50 gallon tank. I have a "up to 100gallon tank" Pentax hang on filter. A 45-75 gallon tank circulator at the bottom level. A 20-45 gallon tank circulator opposite it and mid way up the water column. I also have a Pentax internal heater. It's pretty big. I think for around my tank size recommendation. The light is off. Though it's led so no way it's causing the heat. I clean the filters constantly. Every other day. I have, admittedly, an overstocked tank. But I compensate by doing 30-40% water change every 2-3 days depending on how much feeding. I also use lots of different buffers and additives that I have deemed necessary over the years. If I can't put my nose right up to the water and smell deeply. I expect to smell absolutely nothing or I have a problem. So pristine water cleanliness. Slightly acidic water. I know some of these facts have nothing to do with what I'm wondering. I just want to let everyone know why I have filters that can run by themselves and still be enough. And multiple circulators. Well I am stumped. I have now put my hand in the water and wrap my hand around each circulator or motor of any kind. None are hot to the touch. Or even warmer than what I'm already feeling in the water. It hasn't been more than a day at 89 plus degrees. I know if I can get a hold of this situation to fish should be okay. Are of course just fine in that temperature. Others not so much. In my personal opinion even the warmest water freshwater fish don't need anything over 84°. I feel like people often over estimate what warm water fish temperature is supposed to be. Anyway I don't often post things online. Usually if I have questions I just referenced fish keeping encyclopedias and other books or even trusted internet sources on occasion. But I am absolutely at a loss at this point and what to do. I feel is nothing external from the tank that is causing us. I have a another 50 gallon tank no more than four feet away from this one and it's temperature it's fine. I try to keep that one at about 81.5. it is up a degree of two over that. But it's been there for years and occasionally that does happen. But it always goes back down and it never rises more than what the fish will be comfortable in. The problem tank is by a window but the blinds are always closed. So sunlight is out. Now my bubbler setup is warm. The actual pumping apparatus that's outside and underneath the tank. But just cuz I don't know what else to do I held it in my hand. And it's warm but I don't think it's even temperature the water. So I'm also wondering if maybe the bubbler is at 90° at the absolute most. So maybe the bubbles are coming out that hot? To me that just sounds insane. But this whole thing is beginning to sound that way. Anyone have any thoughts?

Sorry I didn't see the name on the forum. I see Its for reef and saltwater. I apologize. But still would welcome any thoughts

kwf1800 · Jul 4, 2023

kwf1800 said:
Sorry I didn't see the name on the forum. I see Its for reef and saltwater. I apologize. But still would welcome any thoughts

I don't know next I feel like I might want to get on a physics forum and let them know I'm violating the laws of thermodynamics.

Pod_01 · Jul 4, 2023

kwf1800 said:
I don't know next I feel like I might want to get on a physics forum and let them know I'm violating the laws of thermodynamics.

If you have a fan try to run it across top of the tank, hopefully it will bring the temperature down.

I have chiller on my reef to make sure the temperature is stable.

in general all pumps/devices will generate heat and pass it to the water and unfortunately water can retain heat….

Good luck

saltcats · Jul 4, 2023

Could you try unplugging each device one at a time and monitor the temperature? Perhaps you can find the culprit that way.

CallMeChris · Jul 4, 2023

What is air temp between wall and tank? External wall? Wall warm/hot to touch?

workhz · Jul 4, 2023

Did you say the Pentax heater was still plugged in or not?

Do you have a lid on the tank?

Is this a new tank? What did it do last year in the summer?

Just because the blinds are closed doesn’t necessarily mean that isn’t a hot part of the house.

Last but not least. Paragraphs. Paragraphs

blaxsun · Jul 4, 2023

workhz said:
Last but not least. Paragraphs. Paragraphs

^ So much this...

Joseph3 · Jul 4, 2023

What is the total wattage of all of your pumps? All of that energy will eventually be converted and dissipated as heat into your aquarium. So if you have 100watts of pumps on continuously, it’s like having a 100watt heater turned on all the time.

Most of the time pump heat shouldn’t matter unless your room temp is already high or unless you have a faulty pump. A faulty pump may be drawing more power than it should. Measure the differential between the room temp and the water temp at different times of the day. If the differential is somewhat constant, this would suggest that excess pump heat is the culprit, rather than an external source like sunlight heating the tank.

Air pumps and air stones are the best way to add water movement with out adding heat. If you have a sponge filter that you can use, try unplugging all the pumps and filter. I bet the temperature will go down. Good luck!

kwf1800 · Jul 6, 2023

Hello again. Sorry I was busy with 4th of July and work. So I haven't had the time to get back to everyone who tried to give me help. I was pretty determined at the time I posted this. And I didnt see anything about a response till after I cleaned out the circulators removed and disassembled all the filters . Kept the heater off. Then I put an air conditioner in the window about 4 feet from the tank. What was causing it? I don't know. But I have some ideas. With 3 hours of the ac unit taking the room temp down to the high 60s the temp in he tank dropped . Got it down to 83. Then turned the heater on . The heater is incorrect. But heaters break. I buy cheaper ones. They go bad. I am sure some high end ones would be a better choice. But in my opinion heaters are like flashlights. They all break eventually, no matter how much I pay for them. But I had the heater unplugged for days when it went up to 89 degrees. I do believe it was warmer in the room than I thought. But with ac unit going and heater on It's holding at 84.4 for almost 2 days now. So I guess a combination of factors caused it. But even if it was 85 in my house. Which i think not. There was still something else adding heat.
what wattage: I do not know much about watts. I should. But I don't. Aren't each filter and circulator and heater and bubbler varying wattages? Cause I don't have the boxes for them all. Or any. I have 5 tanks going so that's a lot of different things.
I do believe what is causing it is all the motors running in the tank. Three internal motors are running. The the hang on filter is another.
I think that fact (as some here stated) plus the air temp being 80degrees are the two majority factors.
Though I held each motor in my hand underwater. And they didn't feel hot. But that is the part I must be mistaken about.