Rust on Jecod pump after 2 months

HOOPDEEZ · Dec 2, 2017

As the title says I've had this jecod dcs 5000 in use for two months and it is showing rust between the impeller chamber and motor outside of the o-ring. Took it apart and found that one of the "stainless" bolts is not so stainless. I imagine this is just a defect in the one bolt as the others seem fine, and hopefully I can find a replacement at the hardware store. Do I need to try and remove the rust stains? Keep an eye on your pumps!

Fritzhamer · Dec 2, 2017

There’s a great saying about this:
“Stainless steel, isn’t”.

I found this on the original ecotech vortech pumps. I took mine apart one day and found the wet side screw was covered in rust! An engineer friend pointed out that their screws had a 16, or some number on them that signified that it was just about surgical grade. It was however covered in rust.

There were then a bunch of discussion about how we use ferric oxide (rust) to remove gfo. While I was upset to find rust on a stainless steel screw, the reality was that I was purposely running a ton of it in a reactor in my sump.

See if your screw is magnetic, if it isn’t then it’s stainless steel and you can put it back. Also I believe that pump is two or three generations old.

Even Further · Dec 2, 2017

There's several grades stainless steel. Some more corrosion resistant than other, some are magnetic, some are not. Common 300 series like 316 is not magnetic. Also other grades of alloy are not magnetic, Titanium for example. But stainless can rust for many reasons. Could be quality of the metal, could be contaminated on the surface, could be the wrong grade for the application. Saltwater is very, very corrosive, and rust on a supposed stainless fastener on a pump like that isn't surprising. Titanium would be a good fix, but not sure if its availability on that exact screw size.

HOOPDEEZ · Dec 2, 2017

Run it even if it rusts? It is ever so slightly magnetic with a small strong magnet. I don't really care if the rust stains the pump, but don't want it to cause problems. Also if I replace it with stainless what grade should I be looking for? will it happen again with the new hardware? Not sure I'll be able to find titanium, but I'll check out my options tomorrow. Thanks for your replies!

HOOPDEEZ · Dec 2, 2017

And yes the pump is a bit older, but I just started using it New out of the box

HB AL · Dec 2, 2017

Having a boat in saltwater for many years there are a lot of cheap stainless out there especially Chinese made stainless, at least in the boat it's not life or death for the inhabitants. Rest assured the other screws and such will probably start to rust pretty quick to, I would not use it, and if you do I would check for rust at least every month, what a pain.

Fritzhamer · Dec 2, 2017

Rust won’t do anything. All the first few gen vortech pumps had rust on the wet side screws. Mag pumps all have rust on their screws. If anything I’d swap that out for one of the newer DCP series, they don’t have screws.

Even Further · Dec 2, 2017

316 is the best most available stainless option, but quality varies and is questionable on small cheap parts like this. People will easily sell as 316 even though its 304 or lesser resistant grade. Real world best bet is to have spares to swap out every so often if it gets real bad.

HB AL · Dec 2, 2017

Fritzhamer said:
Rust won’t do anything. All the first few gen vortech pumps had rust on the wet side screws. Mag pumps all have rust on their screws. If anything I’d swap that out for one of the newer DCP series, they don’t have screws.

So rust won't pose any issues for any type of tank inhabitants?

Fritzhamer · Dec 2, 2017

I put it in my tank on purpose:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ferric-oxide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide

I believe the properties of the gfo we use are different than “rust” but I’d be amazed if some stray iron did anything at all. For decades people have been finding rusty screws and impeller shafts in their tanks. I think PaulB has some rusty stuff in his tank if I recall correctly. Like railroad spikes and other random stuff.

Velcro · Dec 3, 2017

If you’re worried, go to a hardware store with that bolt and figure out what size, length and thread type the bolt is. Then go online and order the same thing in titanium.

DSC reef · Dec 3, 2017

Fritzhamer said:
Rust won’t do anything. All the first few gen vortech pumps had rust on the wet side screws. Mag pumps all have rust on their screws. If anything I’d swap that out for one of the newer DCP series, they don’t have screws.

Rust will definitely cause issue and harm tank inhabitants.

Fritzhamer · Dec 3, 2017

DSC reef said:
Rust will definitely cause issue and harm tank inhabitants.

Do you have any studies to back that up? I add iron to my tank to keep my macro algae growing, we add granular ferric oxide (rust=ferric oxide) to our tanks and force water through it. Every freshwater tank I’ve ever owned had lots of local rocks that are high in iron content. I find it hard to believe that rust is the “boogie man” it’s often made out to be, especially without any data to back the claims up.

We have decades of anecdotal evidence of people having rusty parts without detrimental effect. I would venture that if all of us field stripped every piece of equipment we own, we’d all find some rust somewhere.

DSC reef · Dec 3, 2017

I have a nice colony of bansai that had stn due to a rusted band. You really need a study to suggest rusted parts in a home aquarium is bad for the tanks inhabitants? Ok. No need to carry on an argument with you.

Fritzhamer · Dec 3, 2017

I do, that sounds like anecdotal evidence without any control. I see no proof there. Why did no other colony stn if rust is bad? Why have my Bonsais not STNd in the presence of rust? Maybe you added too much gfo too quick, maybe you carbon dosed to quick, maybe your tank got too hot, maybe some chemical warfare affected your bonsai, maybe you went too long before swapping out carbon, maybe the other hundred things that can cause STN happened.

I’m not attacking just pointing out some bias. Your coral stnd you went looking for a cause, found rust and called it “case closed” without any real evidence. Maybe the rust is a person of interest but I wouldn’t call that a guilty verdict when rust is so common in the home aquaria.

Velcro · Dec 3, 2017

It’s not the rust that causes the issue. Rust is a warning sign to a bigger issue such as exposed metals underneath the rust that cause issue. Pure rust is literally GFO, but whatever is rusting is no longer providing a barrier between your tank water and toxic metals.

DSC reef · Dec 3, 2017

Maybe you should just look up my thread instead of assuming. I actually had no gfo in my tank. Maybe myself and others who have plenty of experience figured it out? Since we don't have an article from advanced aquarist we should just be discredited right? We can agree to disagree, IMO rusted parts in the aquarium is bad for the inhabitants and your free to have your opinion. BTW, with the help of other experienced reefers we were able to stop the RTN on the colony but maybe it's just coincedence.....

DSC reef · Dec 3, 2017

Velcro said:
It’s not the rust that causes the issue. Rust is a warning sign to a bigger issue such as exposed metals underneath the rust that cause issue. Pure rust is literally GFO, but whatever is rusting is no longer providing a barrier between your tank water and toxic metals.

+1000

Fritzhamer · Dec 3, 2017

DSC reef said:
Maybe you should just look up my thread instead of assuming. I actually had no gfo in my tank. Maybe myself and others who have plenty of experience figured it out? Since we don't have an article from advanced aquarist we should just be discredited right? We can agree to disagree, IMO rusted parts in the aquarium is bad for the inhabitants and your free to have your opinion. BTW, with the help of other experienced reefers we were able to stop the RTN on the colony but maybe it's just coincedence.....

For what it’s worth I’ve been keeping Marine aquaria since the late 90s. I’ve also been a consultant for our public aquarium here in NYC. I also worked with them on this one project where we tried to get some local hobbiests involved on a large coral tank. The main obstacle was that I kept hearing the following phrase:

“We believe in science, hobbiests believe in magic and hearsay.”

With hobbiests, anecdotal evidence is often presented as data and even in the best of circumstances it’s evidence with an n of one. Worst of all is information is often accepted as gospel if it is repeated enough, true or not. Scientists use the scientific method; if something happens they need to be able to find the cause through experimentation, it has to be measurable and reproducable.

A scientist would tell you that x amount of a certain rust (or metal) per gallon will cause detrimental effects such as.... in so much time to the following species. Your post reminds me of Adam from Battlecorals post about people using stray voltage to explain tank issues. His point was that it was usually lack of husbandry or some other input but stray voltage is a convenient boogie man.