Rusty/dirty brown looking spots on scales

Lebreton33 · May 21, 2021

Has anyone ever experienced this? It’s on three of my burying wrasses...all fish put through 30 days of copper safe and 2 rounds of prazi before DT

Sg 1.022
PH 7.95
Temp 76
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 15

Thanks

MnFish1 · May 21, 2021

Its really difficult to see what you mean, would you be able to put some black paper or something on the back - and take another picture?

MnFish1 · May 21, 2021

PS - can you give more details - how long the fish is there, age of the tank, your parameters, etc etc etc

Lebreton33 · May 21, 2021

The rust spots start at the mid section and work back to tail. But I’ll try to get better pics it’s just hard because he won’t stop moving!

Parameters posted. 300 gallon Fowler, 3 years old, all the mentioned fish have been in for over a year. Thanks!

Lebreton33 · May 21, 2021

No signs of any other illness. No white spots, visible flukes, strange behavior, nothing

Lebreton33 · May 21, 2021

I should probably mention...I had a naso tang die on me out of the blue yesterday. He had only been in for a month or so. He went through 30 days of copper, 2 rounds of prazi and a week of GC prior.

He was fine beginning of week. Then on Tuesday night he was hovering at the top of the tank, vertically, almost like he was looking at his own reflection. Then Weds night he became reclusive and hid in the rocks all night and was breathing a bit more heavily. By Thurs morning he was dead. No sign of anything physically wrong with him. He was eating pellets, brine and nori on Tuesday, stopped eating on Weds and dead on Thurs. So strange. Just wanted to add in case anyone else has gone through something similar?

MnFish1 · May 23, 2021

@Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · May 23, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
I should probably mention...I had a naso tang die on me out of the blue yesterday. He had only been in for a month or so. He went through 30 days of copper, 2 rounds of prazi and a week of GC prior.

He was fine beginning of week. Then on Tuesday night he was hovering at the top of the tank, vertically, almost like he was looking at his own reflection. Then Weds night he became reclusive and hid in the rocks all night and was breathing a bit more heavily. By Thurs morning he was dead. No sign of anything physically wrong with him. He was eating pellets, brine and nori on Tuesday, stopped eating on Weds and dead on Thurs. So strange. Just wanted to add in case anyone else has gone through something similar?

The naso dying is worrisome. The symptoms could line up with velvet. The wrasse issue could be velvet on their skin. Try to get a better picture. Watch for rapid breathing. I might be able to check your wrasses respiration rate from a video.
Jay

Lebreton33 · May 23, 2021

Also lost a royal pencil yesterday. I’ve been treating their food with metro, kana and furan since yesterday. I think it’s bacterial but I can’t be sure. I don’t see any overt signs of velvet but who knows. Thank you!

Lebreton33 · May 23, 2021

Hmm I can’t seem to attach a video. I tried using the “attach files” but didn’t seem to work. Any suggestions on that? Thanks again

MnFish1 · May 23, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
Hmm I can’t seem to attach a video. I tried using the “attach files” but didn’t seem to work. Any suggestions on that? Thanks again

You can create a video on YouTube - and then post the link

Jay Hemdal · May 23, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
Hmm I can’t seem to attach a video. I tried using the “attach files” but didn’t seem to work. Any suggestions on that? Thanks again

I was able to download and watch the video - sorry, still can't see the "rust spots". However, I also didn't see any evidence of rapid breathing in any of the fish, so that would tend to rule out velvet.

Bacterial cause is really the next most likely diagnosis. An external bath treatment would be best though (not that you can do that in your display). Oral meds have a difficult time getting into external bacteria from the fish's bloodstream.
Medicated food is tricky, a lot harder than people think it is to get a correct dose. Think about it; first you have to guess as to what antibiotic to use, then you guess how much to add to how much food and then you guess as to how much of that food to feed the fish.

Here is an article I posted on this topic:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

Another member produced this food calculator:

Fish Weight Calculator / Medicated Fish Food Mix Calculator

If you follow threads on the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis forum, you know that whenever oral medication is the recommended treatment, @Jay Hemdal cautions that achieving the proper dosage is critical to success. He often refers to his article Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods. That...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Lebreton33 · May 24, 2021

Edit: @Jay Hemdal just saw your response, thank you so much. Please read and see pic and let me know if I’m doing all I can.

So I was able to get the lennards out yesterday and into the hospital tank. No one else is showing at symptoms in the DT currently. It seems like what he has is bacterial. He’s been in the DT for a year so he’s established. I’m treating with the trifecta and prazi. I’m using an airstoje for added oxygen. He’s been laying on the bottom for almost 18 hours now with labored breathing, and was too weak to bury last night. I have seen him swim around a bit this morning from spot to spot so I am very very cautiously optimistic. He seems to have a strong will to survive, I honestly didn’t think he’d be alive this morning. Anyone have any advice on anything else I should do? He has not eaten now in 24 hours, I’ve been feeding his fav spirulina soaked in garlic. Thanks, I really love him and want him to pull through very badly. Pic attached

Lebreton33 · May 24, 2021

Also, as an aside, the rust colored spots may actually be some sort of hemmorage because one of them is starting to look a bit red

Jay Hemdal · May 24, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
Also, as an aside, the rust colored spots may actually be some sort of hemmorage because one of them is starting to look a bit red

Yes, it does look like bloody lesions to me. The rapid breathing bothers me, although this looks bacterial, that shouldn’t make the fish breath fast. I think you are doing the best you can, but the prognosis is very poor....
Jay

Lebreton33 · May 24, 2021

Thanks Jay. Yep, the heavy breathing, laying on bottom and lack of appetite are always bad signs. I was hoping that maybe if I could knock back the infection that maybe he could breathe better, gain some strength and start to eat a bit but it seems like you don't agree that could happen (ie the infection isn't the cause of the breathing issues).

With that said, what is the underlying reason that fish die due to bacterial infections if not by suffocating? Just curious.

Lebreton33 · May 24, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
Thanks Jay. Yep, the heavy breathing, laying on bottom and lack of appetite are always bad signs. I was hoping that maybe if I could knock back the infection that maybe he could breathe better, gain some strength and start to eat a bit but it seems like you don't agree that could happen (ie the infection isn't the cause of the breathing issues).

With that said, what is the underlying reason that fish die due to bacterial infections if not by suffocating? Just curious.

Also, if this is red spot then treating the tank won't help I guess (external). I have to treat his food (internal) but he won't eat at the moment so I guess i'm stuck. This is all too bad, I'm fairly devastated he's such a great friend.

Jay Hemdal · May 24, 2021

Lebreton33 said:
Thanks Jay. Yep, the heavy breathing, laying on bottom and lack of appetite are always bad signs. I was hoping that maybe if I could knock back the infection that maybe he could breathe better, gain some strength and start to eat a bit but it seems like you don't agree that could happen (ie the infection isn't the cause of the breathing issues).

With that said, what is the underlying reason that fish die due to bacterial infections if not by suffocating? Just curious.

Bacteria can certainly infect the gills, and that damage will cause rapid or labored breathing. However, this fish has lesions on its side, so unless the bacteria is all over its body, I would be surprised if the gills are also infected.
There is another thing I didn't mention (mostly because the lesions don't look quite right) but Uronema causes rapid breathing and red lesions. It is most often misdiagnosed as a bacterial infection./ I usually only see it on newly acuired fish though (anthias, wrasse and chromis).

Jay

Lebreton33 · May 25, 2021

Unfortunately he didn't make it. So upsetting, I loved him like a friend. So angry at myself for whatever I did to cause it.

Everyone else in the DT looks good right now but I'm going to continue to feed antibiotics for a two week duration. Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.