Sad Toadstool after Alkalinity Increase

[Scott Christenson]

Hi Folks,

I increased my alkalinity because of receiving bad advice from someone, not R2R, and ever since then my toadstool mushroom has closed up. So, should I decrease again, if so, to what level, and how safely?

My current #'s:

Salinity – 1.025
ORP – 440
PH – 8
Temp – 78
Alkalinity – 12.8
Calcium – 405
Magnesium - 1305
Ammonia/Nitrates/Nitrites = 0

 

[Scott Christenson]

I should note that all of the other corals look fine

 

[andrewkw]

I would just let it fall naturally. Toadstools are some of hardiest corals although they are also prone to days weeks and even occasionally months of looking unhappy. It may not even be the alkalinity effecting it if you see no change in other corals.

 

[Mjrenz]

It will probably be fine , just don't try to change anything too quickly or you may have problems. Let it slowly come back down on its own

 

[Scott Christenson]

It will probably be fine , just don't try to change anything too quickly or you may have problems. Let it slowly come back down on its own

What do you recommend for water parameters?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I would just let it fall naturally. Toadstools are some of hardiest corals although they are also prone to days weeks and even occasionally months of looking unhappy. It may not even be the alkalinity effecting it if you see no change in other corals.

I agree with this, it will fall naturally. Let it do its thing. Changing to many things to quick will cause more of an issue.

And ouch on the alk change though. Alk that high and no nutrients will make quite a few things mad.

 

[Scott Christenson]

I agree with this, it will fall naturally. Let it do its thing. Changing to many things to quick will cause more of an issue.

And ouch on the alk change though. Alk that high and no nutrients will make quite a few things mad.

What do you recommend for alk?

 

[Mjrenz]

I try to keep my alkalinity between 8 and 10 but stability is the most important thing so, even though it's high, if you go slow it should be fine

 

[Eagle_Steve]

What do you recommend for water parameters?

I know not directed at me, but a full list of all inhabitants will help with getting a rough idea of where your tank needs to be at.

Note: Not all tanks are the same so someone saying 7.5-8 dkh and someone saying 10 is ok can work in their tanks but not yours. Best thing to do, is to see what works for your tank slowly. But with Alk for example, less or no nutrients, usually requires a lower alk.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

What do you recommend for alk?

I have a ULNS full SPS tank that sits at 7.2 and does awesome, and some other tanks that are mixed, all zoas, zoa/LPS mix and all of them sit different. My high nutrient zoa grow out tank sits at 13.5, but has 25 NO3 and .5 PO4. The full SPS tank has barely detectable nutrients for example.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I try to keep my alkalinity between 8 and 10 but stability is the most important thing so, even though it's high, if you go slow it should be fine

This is a very good term "Stability". Corals can adapt and do well under all conditions, if it is stable.

 

[Scott Christenson]

This is a very good term "Stability". Corals can adapt and do well under all conditions, if it is stable.

So lower nutrients means lower alkalinity?

 

[Mjrenz]

So lower nutrients means lower alkalinity?

Alkalinity will always need to monitored and added as it's consumed. I'm not aware of any correlation between alkalinity and nitrates

 

[Scott Christenson]

Part of the frustration is even knowing where to begin as a newbie. R2R is great but you get 100 different opinions. Even when shopping for new salt I'm noticing alkalinity levels anywhere from 8 to 13. Now I understand the importance of taking things slow but at this point I'm just looking for a goal # to SLOWLY get to. Should I work my way back down to 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12? Sorry if I sound frustrated.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Here is a list of articles by the awesome @Randy Holmes-Farley that will explain some of this a ton better than I ever could.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randys-reef-chemistry-articles.174821/

In reference to what I was mentioning for my tanks, is that some of them are very high to encourage growth at a fast rate. In order to do this, I have to keep nutrients up there. They just get consumed way to fast not to. My SPS display tank already has huge colonies, does not need to grow like a week and I am aiming for vivid colors and healthy corals. So with that tank being ULNS, it has low nitrate and phosphate. I control the alkalinity with dosing pumps, as it eats about 1.8-20 dkh a day. The grow out tank on the other hand, gets auto water changes done with reef crystals (high alk salt), has a ton of precipitation of calcium here and there on the pumps and such, has more coralline than I know what to do with, but runs in the 20s-30s on nitrates and about .5 for phosphate. All of this being dosed via a dosing pump. Like previously mentioned, I did not just go there with these numbers. I found out where stuff I had grew really fast by slowly working there. Zoas and Euphillias are super growers in the growout tank with these parameters. Some of my SPS frags have been worked over to that tank and grow like weeds in there.

Another thing in reference to nutrients and alk, is mainly in regards to SPS. High alk and low nutrients can cause the skin of the SPS to be thin, and then you end up with burnt tips and such from the high par they usually sit in.

To close, Randy's articles have been a huge help to me over the years and I suggest reading them as time permits. There is over 20 years of his reef knowledge, as well as knowledge form his profession in chemistry.

 

[Mjrenz]

Part of the frustration is even knowing where to begin as a newbie. R2R is great but you get 100 different opinions. Even when shopping for new salt I'm noticing alkalinity levels anywhere from 8 to 13. Now I understand the importance of taking things slow but at this point I'm just looking for a goal # to SLOWLY get to. Should I work my way back down to 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12? Sorry if I sound frustrated.

You will always be able to find 100 different opinions and it can get frustrating. I've found that most of reefing seems to be opinions so I usually find as many sources as I can and choose the path that seems most logical to me after I understand it better. The way I've chosen to maintain my alkalinity is by mixing kent marine superbuffer dkh in with my top off water, it only takes about 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons and fully dissolves. By doing this I'm eliminating the need to dose it separately and I'm only adding a little each day so my alkalinity stays very consistent. Sometimes I use a little bit more or a little bit less depending on how much evaporation I'm getting. I usually try to keep it as close to 9 as I can.

 

[Scott Christenson]

You will always be able to find 100 different opinions and it can get frustrating. I've found that most of reefing seems to be opinions so I usually find as many sources as I can and choose the path that seems most logical to me after I understand it better. The way I've chosen to maintain my alkalinity is by mixing kent marine superbuffer dkh in with my top off water, it only takes about 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons and fully dissolves. By doing this I'm eliminating the need to dose it separately and I'm only adding a little each day so my alkalinity stays very consistent. Sometimes I use a little bit more or a little bit less depending on how much evaporation I'm getting. I usually try to keep it as close to 9 as I can.

Thank you so much, this is what I needed

 

[Mjrenz]

Thank you so much, this is what I needed

You're welcome!

 

[Mjrenz]

Thank you so much, this is what I needed

Also, as eagle_steve said above, your tank may require more or less alkalinity to be added depending on how much your livestock is consuming, if you decide to go with the same method I use make sure to test regularly and tailor the dosage to what your tank needs