"Safety Stop" Question

ubiq · Aug 23, 2021

Has anyone had a negative outcome using safety stop instead of a full QT regimen? I refer specifically to a disease or parasite infestation after using it, not a "stress" reaction.

Jekyl · Aug 23, 2021

Sounds like it's meant to be used with quarantine instead of replacement.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 23, 2021

ubiq said:
Has anyone had a negative outcome using safety stop instead of a full QT regimen? I refer specifically to a disease or parasite infestation after using it, not a "stress" reaction.

I can’t speak to that product specifically, but it is generally accepted that no single dip treatment is 100% effective, a few pathogens can and usually will, get through. Once through, they can rebuild their populations. Ich trophonts for example are highly resistant to dip treatments. Neobenedenia eggs are sticky and won’t be killed by safety stop, and can get caught up and moved with the fish.
I use dips to buy some time and as diagnostic tools, not as full treatments.
Jay

ubiq · Aug 23, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
I can’t speak to that product specifically, but it is generally accepted that no single dip treatment is 100% effective, a few pathogens can and usually will, get through. Once through, they can rebuild their populations. Ich trophonts for example are highly resistant to dip treatments. Neobenedenia eggs are sticky and won’t be killed by safety stop, and can get caught up and moved with the fish.
I use dips to buy some time and as diagnostic tools, not as full treatments.
Jay

Safety Stop requires two separate 45 minute dips. I accept that dips are probably not as effective as a full treatment, but separate QT setups are just not practical for many of us.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 23, 2021

ubiq said:
Safety Stop requires two separate 45 minute dips. I accept that dips are probably not as effective as a full treatment, but separate QT setups are just not practical for many of us.

I understand the cost involved in a proper QT set up, that is why there is a market for this product, as well as "reef safe tonics". Trouble is, none are as effective as proper quarantine.

Safety Stop is formalin in the first dip and methylene blue in the second. Formalin dips can work with Brooklynella and flukes, but formalin does not work for Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon, it just doesn't kill all of the trophonts. I'm not sure why they bother with methylene blue, it is a really outdated medication. It is sort of bacteriostatic, but it isn't an antibiotic. Be sure to aerate the formalin dip!

Never use Safety Stop on shipped fish, the formalin is too stressful after a long journey in high ammonia water. The reason I know this? Years ago, I had come up with this really cool idea; a triage treatment essentially the same as Safety Stop - I dipped all shipped in fish and then moved them into a quarantine system. My losses were outstandingly high, and I stopped after a couple of shipments. I now let shipped fish recover for 72 hours before hitting them with any meds. Fish from your local LSS, with shorter bag times, don't have the same issue.

Jay

Coxey81 · Sep 21, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
I understand the cost involved in a proper QT set up, that is why there is a market for this product, as well as "reef safe tonics". Trouble is, none are as effective as proper quarantine.

Safety Stop is formalin in the first dip and methylene blue in the second. Formalin dips can work with Brooklynella and flukes, but formalin does not work for Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon, it just doesn't kill all of the trophonts. I'm not sure why they bother with methylene blue, it is a really outdated medication. It is sort of bacteriostatic, but it isn't an antibiotic. Be sure to aerate the formalin dip!

Never use Safety Stop on shipped fish, the formalin is too stressful after a long journey in high ammonia water. The reason I know this? Years ago, I had come up with this really cool idea; a triage treatment essentially the same as Safety Stop - I dipped all shipped in fish and then moved them into a quarantine system. My losses were outstandingly high, and I stopped after a couple of shipments. I now let shipped fish recover for 72 hours before hitting them with any meds. Fish from your local LSS, with shorter bag times, don't have the same issue.

Jay

@JayHemdal

Hi Jay, I'm preparing to do my first QT and plan on following your current protocol.

Will this extended 60 day protocol protect against Brooklynella? Should I include a formalin dip or preventative treatment for it, and if so how and when would you recommend performing it. What about Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon?

Also I plan to use copper power as I've read it's more accurate to dose than coppersafe, I assume the QT protocol with it would be the same vs coppersafe?

Thanks for any help!

Jay Hemdal · Sep 21, 2021

Coxey81 said:
@JayHemdal

Hi Jay, I'm preparing to do my first QT and plan on following your current protocol.

Will this extended 60 day protocol protect against Brooklynella? Should I include a formalin dip or preventative treatment for it, and if so how and when would you recommend performing it. What about Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon?

Also I plan to use copper power as I've read it's more accurate to dose than coppersafe, I assume the QT protocol with it would be the same vs coppersafe?

Thanks for any help!

Personally, I’ve found coppersafe has the least chance of detrimental reactions in fish. However, it is slow to cure for active infections. For that I think Cupramine is better.
This quarantine protocol limits Amyloodinium, Cryptocaryon and flukes. It is not effective for Brooklynella or Uronema. Avoid wild caught clownfish, green chromis and yellow wrasse and you’ll reduce the incidence of those two diseases greatly. I only treat for Brook if I see symptoms. Uronema is “treatable” but with a dismal success rate.
Jay

Coxey81 · Sep 21, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Personally, I’ve found coppersafe has the least chance of detrimental reactions in fish. However, it is slow to cure for active infections. For that I think Cupramine is better.
This quarantine protocol limits Amyloodinium, Cryptocaryon and flukes. It is not effective for Brooklynella or Uronema. Avoid wild caught clownfish, green chromis and yellow wrasse and you’ll reduce the incidence of those two diseases greatly. I only treat for Brook if I see symptoms. Uronema is “treatable” but with a dismal success rate.
Jay

Ok, thanks! Planning on a captive bred clownfish for my first.

AirIck · Aug 27, 2022

Coxey81 said:
@JayHemdal

Hi Jay, I'm preparing to do my first QT and plan on following your current protocol.

Will this extended 60 day protocol protect against Brooklynella? Should I include a formalin dip or preventative treatment for it, and if so how and when would you recommend performing it. What about Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon?

Also I plan to use copper power as I've read it's more accurate to dose than coppersafe, I assume the QT protocol with it would be the same vs coppersafe?

Thanks for any help!

Where can I find this QT setup guide?

Jay Hemdal · Aug 28, 2022

AirIck said:
Where can I find this QT setup guide?

It’s in first post in this thread:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

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