Sailfin and scopus in my QT

[just reefing]

Hello everyone, I’m 4 weeks into the fallow period ( 4 more to go) and have my QT going with Cupramine at .42. I do a water change every other day to keep up with the ammonia and the nitrates. I’ve now noticed a few days ago, my sail fin and scopus both have started showing some bad spots and fin issues. The sail fin has bugling eyes and doesn’t leave the floor of the QT. I’ll attach a short video of their behaviors and how they look. Any info is appreciated!

#fishmedic

 

[just reefing]

I have
Sailfin
Scopus
Blenny (lawn mower)
4 chromies
1 cleaner wrasse

In the QT

 

[P.kapp]

I’m definitely no expert, but if you are using the copper to rid your fish of ich or velvet, .42 is too low. From what I understand, therapeutic levels are above 2.0 when using chelated copper. Cupramine would be different.
What are you using for testing the copper?
And what type of copper treatment?

It’s hard to tell from a picture, but is there a power head or filter of some type providing oxygenation?

Also, do you know what your ammonia levels are at? Before I started using Amquel, I was doing water changes almost daily to battle ammonia with 2 smaller fish in a 10 gal tank. I don’t know if Amquel is safe with cupramine though.

I’m a firm believer in qt now, so I hope others can help you too, and get this figured out for you!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone, I’m 4 weeks into the fallow period ( 4 more to go) and have my QT going with Cupramine at .42. I do a water change every other day to keep up with the ammonia and the nitrates. I’ve now noticed a few days ago, my sail fin and scopus both have started showing some bad spots and fin issues. The sail fin has bugling eyes and doesn’t leave the floor of the QT. I’ll attach a short video of their behaviors and how they look. Any info is appreciated!

#fishmedic

The fins are showing bacterial issue and likely due to poor water quality as you must monitor ammonia with a reliable kit in quarantine. The fish still show spots as coppersafe or copperpower is better for these fish than cupramine which is ionic form of copper and cupramine must be at .5, no lower nor higher and verified with a reliable copper kit such as hanna brand.
Also add aeration with air stone . For bacterial, you can use seachem kanaplex but fix the water first and go from there

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m definitely no expert, but if you are using the copper to rid your fish of ich or velvet, .42 is too low. From what I understand, therapeutic levels are above 2.0
What are you using for testing the copper?
And what type of copper treatment?

It’s hard to tell from a picture, but is there a power head or filter of some type providing oxygenation?

Also, do you know what your ammonia levels are at? Before I started using Amquel, I was doing water changes almost daily to battle ammonia with 2 smaller fish in a 10 gal tank.

I’m a firm believer in qt now, so I hope others can help you too, and get this figured out for you!

2.20 is Minimum and for chelated copper - This is Ionic and would kill the fish quickly

 

[P.kapp]

2.20 is Minimum and for chelated copper - This is Ionic and would kill the fish quickly

Thank you for verifying! I should have asked which type of copper first

 

[just reefing]

I’m definitely no expert, but if you are using the copper to rid your fish of ich or velvet, .42 is too low. From what I understand, therapeutic levels are above 2.0
What are you using for testing the copper?
And what type of copper treatment?

It’s hard to tell from a picture, but is there a power head or filter of some type providing oxygenation?

Also, do you know what your ammonia levels are at? Before I started using Amquel, I was doing water changes almost daily to battle ammonia with 2 smaller fish in a 10 gal tank.

I’m a firm believer in qt now, so I hope others can help you too, and get this figured out for you!

The bottle and my LFS both are saying to not go over .50 so I try and hover right under it. I’ve had them in the QT for 4 weeks now and all of a sudden they started showing these signs. I’m testing with the Hanna checker once a day. I don’t test for ammonia as I do daily or every other day water changes and have the ammonia strip in the tank. I’ve got a bubbler in the tank, heater, and I’m using seachem cupramine for the copper treatment.

 

[just reefing]

2.20 is Minimum and for chelated copper - This is Ionic and would kill the fish quickly

So am I supposed to be running the copper at 2.00 with this copper I have? A bit confusing to me

 

[P.kapp]

The bottle and my LFS both are saying to not go over .50 so I try and hover right under it. I’ve had them in the QT for 4 weeks now and all of a sudden they started showing these signs. I’m testing with the Hanna checker once a day. I don’t test for ammonia as I do daily or every other day water changes and have the ammonia strip in the tank. I’ve got a bubbler in the tank, heater, and I’m using seachem cupramine for the copper treatment.

Like Vetteguy said, you are correct in not going over 0.5 with cupramine. I use Coppersafe, so the numbers are different there. I read a ton of posts from Jay Hemdel, Vetteguy, and others on here when learning how to properly qt fish. They are great! I had to use Kanaplex for a couple of fish that had bacterial infections during qt, and it worked great!
Good luck!

 

[vetteguy53081]

The bottle and my LFS both are saying to not go over .50 so I try and hover right under it. I’ve had them in the QT for 4 weeks now and all of a sudden they started showing these signs. I’m testing with the Hanna checker once a day. I don’t test for ammonia as I do daily or every other day water changes and have the ammonia strip in the tank. I’ve got a bubbler in the tank, heater, and I’m using seachem cupramine for the copper treatment.

yes- cupramine is ionic form and good on the test kit. Dosing under often allows parasite to gain control of the fish. I assume you are mixing the new water after water changes to same copper level? I would suggest getting closer to .5 even if it .48 - .49 and test ammonia as even though you are doing water changes, your ammonia level may still be elevated

 

[just reefing]

Like Vetteguy said, you are correct in not going over 0.5 with cupramine. I use Coppersafe, so the numbers are different there. I read a ton of posts from Jay Hemdel, Vetteguy, and others on here when learning how to properly qt fish. They are great! I had to use Kanaplex for a couple of fish that had bacterial infections during qt, and it worked great!
Good luck!

Thank you, I just want to treat them accordingly and get them back into good shape

 

[just reefing]

yes- cupramine is ionic form and good on the test kit. Dosing under often allows parasite to gain control of the fish. I assume you are mixing the new water after water changes to same copper level? I would suggest getting closer to .5 even if it .48 - .49 and test ammonia as even though you are doing water changes, your ammonia level may still be elevated\ted

I haven’t been dosing the new water to the equal level of copper in the QT. I just get it to the approximate temp before I water change. I was always afraid that if I dosed the new water to the desired level, it may increase the over all QT and harm the fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

I haven’t been dosing the new water to the equal level of copper in the QT. I just get it to the approximate temp before I water change. I was always afraid that if I dosed the new water to the desired level, it may increase the over all QT and harm the fish

This is in part the reason the fish have dots and bacterial issues in treatment

 

[just reefing]

This is in part the reason the fish have dots and bacterial issues in treatment

Ok, thank you for informing me. I’ve watched a ton of setup videos on QT’s and no one ever specified how to add water. From now on that’s what I will be doing. Is there anything I can do for the fish at this point in time?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok, thank you for informing me. I’ve watched a ton of setup videos on QT’s and no one ever specified how to add water. From now on that’s what I will be doing. Is there anything I can do for the fish at this point in time?

Get to proper treatment level and maintain good water quality
Even take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use API test kits and have them test ammonia levels for you to verify level

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The bottle and my LFS both are saying to not go over .50 so I try and hover right under it. I’ve had them in the QT for 4 weeks now and all of a sudden they started showing these signs. I’m testing with the Hanna checker once a day. I don’t test for ammonia as I do daily or every other day water changes and have the ammonia strip in the tank. I’ve got a bubbler in the tank, heater, and I’m using seachem cupramine for the copper treatment.

I think this is a toss up between a reaction to poor water quality or Neobenedenia skin flukes.

Having to change that much water in a tank that’s been set up that long isn’t right - what filtration are you using? The water also seems cloudy with particles, that isn’t normal either.

You could test for Neobenenia by giving the tangs a five minute FW dip, one at a time, and look for flukes in the bottom of the container (they look like fish scales).

Jay

 

[just reefing]

I think this is a toss up between a reaction to poor water quality or Neobenedenia skin flukes.

Having to change that much water in a tank that’s been set up that long isn’t right - what filtration are you using? The water also seems cloudy with particles, that isn’t normal either.

You could test for Neobenenia by giving the tangs a five minute FW dip, one at a time, and look for flukes in the bottom of the container (they look like fish scales).

Jay

Thank you Jay.

It’s a 37g QT so I do water changes to reduce the ammonia. For filtration, it’s a hang over with a pad. I used 60% from my DT that was having issues and added the rest with fresh R/O. I was also concerned with the particles, just thought it was normal. I’ve watched some videos on setting up QT’s and most have said to use water from your DT for the cycled factor. It’s a top fin 37g so im using what ever came with the tank. I’ll FW dip them tomorrow and see if I can see and scales.