Sailfin in QT on his side occasionally

[RazorD]

I’m about 12 days into QT with a Desjardini sailfin and last few days I’ve noticed him occasionally laying on his side a bit on the bottom of the tank (seems to be breathing fine though). Most of the time he’s swimming around fine, but noticed it this morning after I fed him and it lasted for about 10 minutes. He’s eating and doesn’t appear to have any spots. I just finished the first dose of Prazipro and he’s been on cupramine since the second day (tested and verified in therapeutic levels). Been feeding metroplex occasionally as well. Ammonia badge shows zero and plenty of flow.

Could be normal? but wanted to check with you guys to see if there’s anything to be concerned with or on the lookout for?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ngoodermuth]

Most tangs are generally pretty active, have you double checked ammonia (not just a badge) just to be sure? Add an extra airstone perhaps? Praziquantel can really zap the 02, even with normal flow. And tangs are high oxygen fish.

Any strange markings or lesions? What type of copper and what level are you holding? Test kit being used?

 

[RazorD]

So an hour later I went to check on him and he was swimming around. Two minutes later, he goes back to laying on side. Now I notice what seems to be a spot on his side. Sorry for the dirty outside of the tank, but here’s a short video.

 

[RazorD]

Video upload wouldn’t work

 

[RazorD]

Most tangs are generally pretty active, have you double checked ammonia (not just a badge) just to be sure? Add an extra airstone perhaps? Praziquantel can really zap the 02, even with normal flow. And tangs are high oxygen fish.

Any strange markings or lesions? What type of copper and what level are you holding? Test kit being used?

I have two powerheads and a HOB filter on a 20g. I think air should be ok. The test kit is Seachem and it’s been around .4. It’s not that precise given subjectivity of color comparison so I just did a 5g water change to lower it a bit and see. Not sure how else to test ammonia given the use of copper?

As for spots, there’s one scuff looking spot on one side but it’s not always visible.

I just fed the tank and he ate. Sometimes he’s perfectly straight, then he goes on a side spell for a little while.

 

[Billldg]

Are u using prazi and copper at the same time, if so then I would stop and do a few water changes with the correct dose of copper, mixing prazi and copper is not good thing. If u are worried about parasites internally then u can soak food in GC and focus. I would point a pump upward to oxygenate the water.

#reefsquad
@HotRocks
@4FordFamily
@Big G

 

[ngoodermuth]

Actually, prazi can be used with copper as long as there is PLENTY of extra aeration. When I’m forced to do so (I do generally avoid it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do) I’ll literally point an airline under my powerhead so that it shoots bubbles all over the tank.

The concern here is the scuff mark. I suspect you are actually dealing with something bacterial... but a picture would be helpful to confirm.

Do you have acriflavine on hand? Ruby reef rally and fungus cure both contain it.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I have two powerheads and a HOB filter on a 20g. I think air should be ok. The test kit is Seachem and it’s been around .4. It’s not that precise given subjectivity of color comparison so I just did a 5g water change to lower it a bit and see. Not sure how else to test ammonia given the use of copper?

As for spots, there’s one scuff looking spot on one side but it’s not always visible.

I just fed the tank and he ate. Sometimes he’s perfectly straight, then he goes on a side spell for a little while.

Yes, I wasn’t thinking about the test kit not working with copper. With cupramine you actually want the level around .5, and I would NOT lower it yet... since you could very well be dealing with a parasite (ie velvet) and the copper is the only thing keeping it at bay.

 

[4FordFamily]

Always have a bubbler AND small powerhead if you plan to mix meds, IMO. You’re in good hands here otherwise.

A tang shouldn’t lay on it’s side, something is stressing it. Oxygen, damaged gills from disease prior to treating, or ammonia would be my three suspected culprits.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Video upload wouldn’t work

You have to host the video elsewhere, like YouTube or Vimeo and then post the link

 

[Billldg]

Can u post a picture of the scuff mark in question, like @ngoodermuth said, that can be of great concern.

 

[RazorD]

This video was taken when he wasn’t looking good. Shortly after, seemed better.


@ngoodermuth @Billldg

 

[RazorD]

I also add, the tank is divided in half with a purple tang on the other side which is acting fine and swimming great. Eating like a pig too. (I know they’re generally hardier though)

 

[4FordFamily]

That is a very stressed tang. The fin movement indicates to me heavy breathing -- I THINK I see his gills moving quickly as well. That's unfortunately not a good sign, IMO. I still suspect ammonia, damage from previous infection, low oxygen, and perhaps even copper poisoning. Copper poisoning isn't common in tangs, but every once in a while I find a copper intolerant zebrasoma tang.

 

[RazorD]

So the Seachem badge has always been yellow. I did 5/6 gallon change after that video and didn’t add copper.

I have two powerheads and a HOB filter so I don’t think it’s air. Plus, Prazipro was dosed 6 days ago so I think that’s all behind us.

What do you guys suggest next? I can do a large water change tonight, but should I go copperless or add it again?

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you are going to remove from copper, I think your best bet would be to transfer to another QT without lowering your current copper level. That way, if the copper is protecting the fish from reinfestation from a parasite, you aren't making it available. I'd also consider a 90-minute acriflavine bath in route, and having a broad-spectrum antibiotic at the ready.

 

[RazorD]

Thanks, I wouldn’t be able to have acriflavine in hand for a few days. Only meds I have on hand right now are metroplex/focus, cupramine and Prazipro. I’ll need to check and see what LFS has in hand.

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you are going to check for acriflavine I’d also look for kanaplex and furan-2, or API triple sulpha.

The acriflavine is definitely helpful, but if that scrape does turn out to be bacterial you’ll really need an effective antibiotic.

Since you have metroplex already, the trifecta of metroplex + kanaplex+ furan-2 is very effective and also has the added benefits of covering you for brooklynella and uronema.

If he does turn up with ich or velvet however, the only other choice you really have besides copper is CP.

 

[RazorD]

Thanks. Would all of that be ok but n the current QT with cupramine? Also, does any of this change given the purple tang is acting perfectly fine? No symptoms at all?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

All above advice is good, just thought I would throw another idea in the mix.

Praziquantel is usually tolerated well by fish, but when one doesnt handle it well it acts somewhat as you describe. Also double check to be sure your dosage was accurate.