Sailfin Quarantine going wrong

[jackalexander]

My baby sailfin just started copper yesterday and it’s around 2.26 but he was acting weird even before the copper. Now, color has faded and he’s breathing super fast but I don’t have any water to do a WC. should I just pull out 50% of the water and hope there’s enough water movement until I can get water tomorrow? PLEASE HELP.

 

[jackalexander]

He’s currently laying on his side but his breathing is normal and he’s looking around and reacting to my hand when I try to get him to swim...

 

[jackalexander]

 

[jackalexander]

pulled 5 gallons from my display and did a water change... Hope little guy makes it, don’t really know what else to do. I want to reduce the flow but at the same time, it forces him to swim rather than lay on his side.

 

[Big E]

Is this an established cycled QT tank?
How long has he been in the tank and how many gallons is it?

I wouldn't have treated for anything and just observed him if the QT tank is established.

 

[ehealy13]

Was the copper introduced gradually while the fish was in the QT? I have read several articles that fish will often become stressed, when/if placed directly into full strength copper.

 

[jackalexander]

Is this an established cycled QT tank?
How long has he been in the tank and how many gallons is it?

I wouldn't have treated for anything and just observed him if the QT tank is established.

I have kept my QT established for months, I keep it cycled 24/7. My plan was to observe and I did for about a week but then I spotted a small white spot on his fin.

 

[jackalexander]

Was the copper introduced gradually while the fish was in the QT? I have read several articles that fish will often become stressed, when/if placed directly into full strength copper.

I was told by @Jay Hemdal and others that I didn’t need to increase it gradually since I’m using copper power...

 

[vetteguy53081]

the copper is a little elevated and tangs do best with coppersafe which is less harsh. I would also increase oxygen with as simple as an airstone and lastly verify ammonia level. Hopefully you are not relying on an API kit which may be giving you false readings in which ammonia may be higher than indicated.

 

[jackalexander]

the copper is a little elevated and tangs do best with coppersafe which is less harsh. I would also increase oxygen with as simple as an airstone and lastly verify ammonia level. Hopefully you are not relying on an API kit which may be giving you false readings in which ammonia may be higher than indicated.

I’ve got my airstone going and I have a seachem ammonia badge and API and they both read close to 0. I’ll get a new one at the LFS today, any good suggestions?

 

[ehealy13]

I was told by @Jay Hemdal and others that I didn’t need to increase it gradually since I’m using copper power...

He is way more knowledgeable than I am, and has offered me helpful advice. I'd follow his lead.

I just went through a treatment cycle using Cupramine and the directions were to raise it gradually; it may vary between products.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ve got my airstone going and I have a seachem ammonia badge and API and they both read close to 0. I’ll get a new one at the LFS today, any good suggestions?

Salifert or Hanna test kit. ammonia badge as unreliable for results also as it is intended for fresh and saltwater. Will work however with your water you use for mixing with salt

 

[jackalexander]

He is way more knowledgeable than I am, and has offered me helpful advice. I'd follow his lead.

I just went through a treatment cycle using Cupramine and the directions were to raise it gradually; it may vary between products.

After pulling out 50% of the copper, he’s moving his fins on his own now so I think I will gradually raise the copper this time..

 

[jackalexander]

Salifert or Hanna test kit. ammonia badge as unreliable for results also as it is intended for fresh and saltwater. Will work however with your water you use for mixing with salt

I’ll pick up one of those today, thank you!

 

[kenchilada]

I was told by @Jay Hemdal and others that I didn’t need to increase it gradually since I’m using copper power...

This has not worked out for me at all.

After seeing how effective 150ppm H2O2 bath is, I think the bath is more important on day 1 than raising copper fast. Out of the bag (discard bag water), into the bath for 30 minutes, then into QT at 1ppm copper power. I raise copper 0.3-0.5ppm per day. For sensitive fish I am using chloroquine or hybrid TTM instead.

Just my two cents, which is about all it’s worth.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I was told by @Jay Hemdal and others that I didn’t need to increase it gradually since I’m using copper power...

This is a tough one - using the clue that you saw some behavior changes before you added copper, I would say it isn’t copper toxicity.
He is a scenario to think about - you were just observing the fish, right? What if velvet got started (rapid breathing, pale color). Then, you started adding copper, but that takes up to three days to work, so the fish gets worse.
Velvet is much easier to prevent as once you see it, copper doesn’t work fast enough.
I should add that is just a hypothesis, this could also be a water quality issue....
Jay

 

[jackalexander]

This is a tough one - using the clue that you saw some behavior changes before you added copper, I would say it isn’t copper toxicity.
He is a scenario to think about - you were just observing the fish, right? What if velvet got started (rapid breathing, pale color). Then, you started adding copper, but that takes up to three days to work, so the fish gets worse.
Velvet is much easier to prevent as once you see it, copper doesn’t work fast enough.
I should add that is just a hypothesis, this could also be a water quality issue....
Jay

I wasn’t observing, I just let him settle in for about 48-72 hours before going full dose. I believe he developed swim bladder disease because he began to swim upside down and sink towards the bottom. There wasn’t much I could do and he unfortunately passed away this morning..

 

[inktomi]

You could also get some AmQuel from the store and add some to the QT tank. It'll keep any Ammonia that might be there from becoming a problem - it buys time. Good luck! It sounds like you're on the road to recovery. I wouldn't put your hands in the tank if it's not swimming around though, that's gotta be super stressful for the fish which only compounds any issues.

 

[jackalexander]

You could also get some AmQuel from the store and add some to the QT tank. It'll keep any Ammonia that might be there from becoming a problem - it buys time. Good luck! It sounds like you're on the road to recovery. I wouldn't put your hands in the tank if it's not swimming around though, that's gotta be super stressful for the fish which only compounds any issues.

Unfortunately he passed away this morning... thank you for the help though.

 

[brandon429]

Jack don't feel bad you did the best possible, inputting him without the qt attempt wouldn't have worked any better though it might have been a more delayed loss. this is the % loss we must deal with in the hobby to earn higher fish retention


you sure have done well reefing, I recall last year your cycling experiment and then these good attempts at fish disease control, well done staying up to date on best practices. there is no more advanced science for hobby marine fish disease control than what you're applying and collecting from the crowd source here, well done.