Sailfin tang help - swim bladder?

[Shluffer]

I posted this in the sick forum, but didnt get a responce. I'm now getting much more worried. Please dont bash. I already know I messed up. The story:

3 small tangs and a wrass in QT, 50g breeder, had amonia problems. Thaught it was cycled, but maybe not. What I did, not including all of the water changes:

1) methylyn blue dip
2) treated with prazi on day 3
3) lost a tang on day 6 (not one of the three above) Amonia was at .5 ppm. Large water change, added filtration and aeration
4) day 7 amonia was fine. 20% water change. Sailfin tang started hiding
5) day 9, time for second prazi. Was worried o2 level in water was too low, so gave a bath in prazi instead, then methyl, Acclimated and out in main tank (yes, not my best move). Wrass went immediately for the sand. Not worried. Chocklate and sailfin tang spent an hour swimming around the tank. Chased my clowns. Thaught all was good.
6) net morning, sailfin is in top right corner of tank breathing hard. Wont move from the corner. Chocolate tang is swimming around, but keeps visiting his friend.
7) sailfin now swims with nose up, lies upside on bottom of tank, breathing hard ......
Current situation:
Wrass seems fine. Sailfin as above. Chocklate is swimming around like normal, but spitting out food is thin. I pulled the sailfin out.

What should I do? I have a multitude of worries, but would like to figure out if I introduced something really bad into my tank. Freshwater dip? Methylyn blue? Is this swim bladder and it's over? How do I tell?

Thanks in advance. Will wait for responce

 

[Shluffer]

These are from this morning:

 

[Shluffer]

From 2 days ago

 

[Big G]

What kind of aeration do you have running?
How long has it been since the fish have had a methylene blue bath?
Are you dosing Prime or other product for ammonia? Do you keep an ammonia badge in the tank?

 

[Shluffer]

No prime. No amonia in the main tank, had amonia problems in QT (hense my stupid idea to out them in my dt). Methtlyn blue last was saturday night.

I was thinking freshwater dip too check what is going on then methyl. Does that make sense? Or bad idea?

 

[Big G]

You already gave the fish a bath in Prazi. The FW dip is usually used to give relief from parasites and to check for flukes. But since you've already put it in Prazi, the FW dip would be inconclusive. Another bath in MB could help the fish breathe better.

The thin condition and spitting out of food could be an indication of internal pathogens. Feeding the fish, preferably in a QT, with a mix of food + General Cure + Focus for 10-14 days could help clear the fish of worms.
Any white and stringy poop?

 

[Shluffer]

Wow this feels funny to say. The chocolate popped yesterday, not stringy. Food is thawed, mixed with focus + metro+ kanaplex and refrozen into daily portions. Its worms+ squid+gutloaded brine soaked in garlic and vitality.

Aeration at the moment is an air stone. Setting up a hospital tank. Will add methyl. He is in measured water ...

 

[Shluffer]

I'm worried about velvet. I'm thinking if he has it some will fall off in the freshwater and I'll know to disassemble my DT before they all die. If it's something else, is it better to leave my chocklate in the DT and treat it with prazi? I'm worried about the added stress of moving him again. He is sectioned of by egg crate so he isnt competing for food.

 

[Big G]

I hear your concern about velvet. Since the fish is passing food through as normal, the breathing difficulty is troubling. Could be damage to the gills from the ammonia or parasites. For suspected velvet:

Freshwater dip for 3-5 minutes to remove parasites as possible. Heavily aerate.
Then immediately into a 60-90 minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally
Then into QT already predosed with Copper Power to 1.0 ppm. Using regular small doses, spread out throughout the day slowly bring up to 2.0 within 24-48 hours.
Also treat for bacterial infections with Kanaplex or even better with Spectrogram.

 

[Shluffer]

I don't have ruby reef and can't get it local. I have on hand:
1) GC
2) furan II
3) Metro
4) Kanaplex
5) focus
6) Methylyn
7) melafix
8) coppersafe

so, freshwater than methyl than coppersafe? Shoule I expect to see anything fall of in the freshwater?

 

[Big G]

After your already dosing Prazi, I wouldn't expect to see anymore flukes. Velvet is too small to see with the naked eye. But the FW dip will remove an amazing number of them if they are present. Then, yes, I'd consider the MB bath to help. And then into coppersafe. Do you have a Hanna HL Copper Checker to track the dosing?

All of the measures above come with risk to to the fish, especially in a weakened state.

 

[Shluffer]

API Copper test kit, and I checked its copper power not copper safe. I'm ordering prime (will not use with copper in the water) and ammonia badges. Will get them tomorrow. I would prefer to avoid taking apart my tank to treat all of them. any way to tell if velvet is present other than quick death?

 

[Shluffer]

I don't know if the sailfin will survive freshwater, but if not I think its too late in anyways.

 

[Shluffer]

90% sure its velvet. Do I need to empty my tank and treat, or is their something other than copper that will work? Once I'm removing all the rock from the tank to get the fish out, is there any reason not to treat in the DT (acrylic)? I would remove the sand, the rocks, any snails I find ........ I just don't have a large enough tank to treat them anywhere else. Are there any better options? Sorry for all the questions.

And, since its in your signature, #reefsquad

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Big G]

API Copper test kit, and I checked its copper power not copper safe. I'm ordering prime (will not use with copper in the water) and ammonia badges. Will get them tomorrow. I would prefer to avoid taking apart my tank to treat all of them. any way to tell if velvet is present other than quick death?

Copper Power is my preferred choice. The dosing is very accurate as long as you know the "actual" gallon capacity of your tank.
You can use Prime with either Copper Power or Coppersafe. Prime should not be used with Cupramine.
Fish should be removed to a QT, and then the tank is left "fallow" for 76 days to starve out the parasite from the DT.

Fallow tank it's ok to leave inverts, corals, just no fish for the parasites to feed upon.

Other symptoms of velvet: labored breathing, hiding from light, swimming into a flow like a powerhead or return line. With some fish it is difficult to see the many parasites on the fish itself. Using a small flashlight, shine the light at an angle to the fish, like front to rear, and look for a dusty sheen on the skin.

Here's more info:

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) What You Need To Know: * Fast killing parasite capable of wiping out most of your fish in just a matter of days. Sometimes there are survivors, sometimes not. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank using Chloroquine phosphate or Copper. A 5...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Shluffer]

The reason I think its velvet is I see a velvet like sheen on one of the fish, the one I expect is patient zero. A second one is really thin and not eating, flashes every once in a while but doesn't show the velvet look of microdots yet. Trying to do something about this before I lose the rest of them.