Salinity and mathatics help?

[Mark Novack]

Hello,
My tank is now turning over with Caribsea live sand, sterile rock, and Prodibio bacterial and nutrient ampules. Water volume is about 800 liters. Salinity is 1.016. In a couple of weeks I would like to increase the salinity 0.001 parts per day for 5 days until I am at 1.021.

I will take 80 liters of water from the tank and increase its salinity so that when I return it the tank rises 0.001. To what salinity must I raise the 80 liters to effect the correct change?

Kudos if you show me the math and jog my memory because you will probably help me regain some math skills.

Thank You,
Mark

 

[blaxsun]

Why not just keep adding saltwater daily, or just raise the salinity to 1.021 now? Also curious why so low as most run 1.025-1.026.

 

[Mark Novack]

This is an old fashioned slow cycle with modern knowledge and bacterial additives. Basic nitrifying bacterias grow much faster in lower salinity, moderate ph, and higher temperatures, empirically demonstrated and proven science. Running an initial 2 to 3 weeks will form a basic bed. Then raising it to 1.021 over five days while lowering the temp a half degree per day will not shock the system. After a few days at 1.021 I can seed with coralline and put in some invertebrates and live rock. 1.021 is perfect at this stage for pods, a fish, and macro algaes. It is also suspected/possible that a lean 1.021 diminishes certain parasites.
If all looks good after three or four more weeks like that, the I can bring it up over another few days to my desired 1.024, give it few more days and put in some more invertebrates and another fish.

With this plan, I should arrive at about 4 months of carefully cycling for introducing the first test pieces of coral. If I stay with the plan it kind of forces me to be patient and not try and forcibly fix nature's cycle with products.

I didn't think this up on my own. This is mainly from BSR and a chemist/biologist that spoke at a major conference. My 11 years of experience has taught me that I do better with a militarily regimented plan. The timeline is my design to slow myself down. This is the last tank I will ever do. Nothing is going to happen quickly. My 'build' thread will be boringly slow but so far everything is working with a problem. I'm even 6 weeks ahead of schedule.

Mark

 

[Jedi1199]

I am not finding a calculator for your issue.. the best I could find, requires parameters you have not defined.

Try this one...

Direct Salt Addition Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the amount of solid salt required to raise salinity to a target level.

www.hamzasreef.com

 

[Jedi1199]

Honestly, if it was me, I would just bring it up to 35 ppm (1.026 ish) and be done. But whatever works for you.

 

[Karen00]

I used the CaribSea Live Sand and was under the impression the stuff that makes that sand "live" would not survive in salinity as low as you have it (1.016) which is nearing low brackish conditions. It might be safe with dead sand and bacteria made for those conditions. Having said that I could be entirely wrong but I think you might've just killed most of the live organisms in that sand. You also mention BRS spoke about the method you describe. To be honest I have never heard of this method before so if you don't get any replies to help guide you then maybe you can contact BRS to get the directions on how to achieve what you are trying to do.

 

[Screwgunner]

.0014 ×8=.0112
1.016+.0112=1.028

 

[Mark Novack]

Gunner,
I was just turning it into a word problem and it helped me organize the problem and I came up with 1.027 but I see where I went off. Thank you.

Mark

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is an old fashioned slow cycle with modern knowledge and bacterial additives. Basic nitrifying bacterias grow much faster in lower salinity, moderate ph, and higher temperatures, empirically demonstrated and proven science. Running an initial 2 to 3 weeks will form a basic bed. Then raising it to 1.021 over five days while lowering the temp a half degree per day will not shock the system. After a few days at 1.021 I can seed with coralline and put in some invertebrates and live rock. 1.021 is perfect at this stage for pods, a fish, and macro algaes. It is also suspected/possible that a lean 1.021 diminishes certain parasites.
If all looks good after three or four more weeks like that, the I can bring it up over another few days to my desired 1.024, give it few more days and put in some more invertebrates and another fish.

With this plan, I should arrive at about 4 months of carefully cycling for introducing the first test pieces of coral. If I stay with the plan it kind of forces me to be patient and not try and forcibly fix nature's cycle with products.

I didn't think this up on my own. This is mainly from BSR and a chemist/biologist that spoke at a major conference. My 11 years of experience has taught me that I do better with a militarily regimented plan. The timeline is my design to slow myself down. This is the last tank I will ever do. Nothing is going to happen quickly. My 'build' thread will be boringly slow but so far everything is working with a problem. I'm even 6 weeks ahead of schedule.

Mark

BRS and a random chemist/biologist is the basis for this plan?

Did you ever see any data supporting it?

Normal cycling at normal salinity doesn't take very long.

 

[Mark Novack]

BRS experimented with it. The biologist was not too random. And data on PH, salinity, and bacterial growth speed is available from a variety of unifs. But its not about speed at all. More about layering the cycles because the nitrifying cycle is only one of them.

I'm keeping a thread on the general aquarium or owners tanks for my own general log and memory helper. I'll post updates as things continue along the plan on that thread. It won't be very active. I'm on the long cycle. And my last cycle. After this tank, my next hobby will be sipping Coka Cola on North Ari atoll in the Maldives.

Mark

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

BRS experimented with it. The biologist was not too random. And data on PH, salinity, and bacterial growth speed is available from a variety of unifs. But its not about speed at all. More about layering the cycles because the nitrifying cycle is only one of them.

I'm keeping a thread on the general aquarium or owners tanks for my own general log and memory helper. I'll post updates as things continue along the plan on that thread. It won't be very active. I'm on the long cycle. And my last cycle. After this tank, my next hobby will be sipping Coka Cola on North Ari atoll in the Maldives.

Mark

I do not think there is convincing evidence that what you are doing is better than cycling at normal salinity, but let us know how things work out.

 

[Screwgunner]

I had the other steps on there but deleted it some how and was not going though that again.

 

[Screwgunner]

Gunner,
I was just turning it into a word problem and it helped me organize the problem and I came up with 1.027 but I see where I went off. Thank you.

Mark

Any time I wasn't very good in school but always had A,s in math.

 

[Dburr1014]

This is an old fashioned slow cycle with modern knowledge and bacterial additives. Basic nitrifying bacterias grow much faster in lower salinity, moderate ph, and higher temperatures, empirically demonstrated and proven science. Running an initial 2 to 3 weeks will form a basic bed. Then raising it to 1.021 over five days while lowering the temp a half degree per day will not shock the system. After a few days at 1.021 I can seed with coralline and put in some invertebrates and live rock. 1.021 is perfect at this stage for pods, a fish, and macro algaes. It is also suspected/possible that a lean 1.021 diminishes certain parasites.
If all looks good after three or four more weeks like that, the I can bring it up over another few days to my desired 1.024, give it few more days and put in some more invertebrates and another fish.

With this plan, I should arrive at about 4 months of carefully cycling for introducing the first test pieces of coral. If I stay with the plan it kind of forces me to be patient and not try and forcibly fix nature's cycle with products.

I didn't think this up on my own. This is mainly from BSR and a chemist/biologist that spoke at a major conference. My 11 years of experience has taught me that I do better with a militarily regimented plan. The timeline is my design to slow myself down. This is the last tank I will ever do. Nothing is going to happen quickly. My 'build' thread will be boringly slow but so far everything is working with a problem. I'm even 6 weeks ahead of schedule.

Mark

I just read the low sg for faster cycle the other day. Interesting.

Just bring it up to full sg, they will survive.

 

[Dburr1014]

I used the CaribSea Live Sand and was under the impression the stuff that makes that sand "live" would not survive in salinity as low as you have it (1.016) which is nearing low brackish conditions. It might be safe with dead sand and bacteria made for those conditions. Having said that I could be entirely wrong but I think you might've just killed most of the live organisms in that sand. You also mention BRS spoke about the method you describe. To be honest I have never heard of this method before so if you don't get any replies to help guide you then maybe you can contact BRS to get the directions on how to achieve what you are trying to do.

I don't think there is much live stuff as people think. It's been bagged for a while in most cases, trucked(cold? Hot?) warehoused? Again, hot or cold? Then sitting in a store for who knows how long. I see a lot of dust on those bags sometimes.

 

[Ashy]

Target Salinity Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Create a water-change schedule that can be used to reach a target salinity.

www.hamzasreef.com

 

[Karen00]

I don't think there is much live stuff as people think. It's been bagged for a while in most cases, trucked(cold? Hot?) warehoused? Again, hot or cold? Then sitting in a store for who knows how long. I see a lot of dust on those bags sometimes.

You are quite possibly right but I got an almost instant cycle with it. I used it and the CaribSea dry rock and that's it. This is my first tank. I was sold a bottle of starter bacteria but then I read the bag which said not to dose any bacteria because it could outcompete with the sand. Would this have stopped the instant cycle if I had dosed... Maybe not but my point is that I only used the live sand so I assumed something was still living. LOL I also wouldn't have paid a premium for live sand then drop the salinity to 1.016 which could kill anything living in the sand. My plan would've been to buy cheaper dry marine sand and simply add a bottled euryhaline bacteria. That CaribSea sand is expensive to deliberately kill what might be living in it.

 

[workhz]

Gunner,
I was just turning it into a word problem and it helped me organize the problem and I came up with 1.027 but I see where I went off. Thank you.

Mark

I don't know what either of you are doing to come up with 1.028 or 1.027. I think it's 1.026 given how you worded the question. Could be salt, could anything ... doesn't matter.

Take your 800l at 1.016. 720l x 1.016 is 731.52. 80l x 1.016 is 81.28 (total is 731.52 + 81.28 = 813.6).

You want all 800l to be at 1.017. That would be a total of 800 x 1.017 = 813.6

You know your 720l has 731.52 so what you add back in has to be 813.6 - 731.52 = 82.08 to get to your 1.017

82.08 / 80l = 1.026

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could be salt, could anything ... doesn't matter.

A few exceptions. pH and ORP, for example. pH need not even be in between the two starting values.

 

[Mark Novack]

Between 1.026 and 1.028 in 80l is not going to freak out the tank. I could just lob salt into the empty sump chamber but I prefer to mix it in a garbage pail and put it in clear. Having just mixed up a batch of 6 weeks worth of change water for my small tank, I now need more salt. And 4 80W T5 tubes, a couple of CO2 scrubbers and replacement medium. The one store that has all I need in stock today is 100 miles from here. Its a beautiful day, my car is clean from a pro detailing...perhaps a road trip to the Home Depot of fish stores is in order. Its tough because since the detailing I promised myself no smoking in the car but my lungs like the idea.