Salinity and PH issue

[KayKaytn]

Hi all. I am new to reefing. I have a Fluval M90, 36 Gallon, AIO system. I have an Apex connected to the tank which I use to monitor. I also use a refractometer which I have calibrated and I am using API test kits to do additional water checks. I started the tank with 25 pounds of cultured, live rock from my LHS and also used live sand. In the filter chambers, I have an InTank media holder that has filter fiber, activated carbon and Fluval biomax biorings. I have a Fluval PS1 protein skimmer and am topping up using a Tunze nano ATO and I use fresh RO water for that. I have no livestock in the tank. Only the live rock and sand.

The tank has been up and running for 2.5 weeks now. I have yet to observe any spike in Ammonia, nitrites or nitrates.

I am struggling to get my PH above 7.6 and my salinity up above 32. I have done two 15% water changes. The first was with Imagitarium Pacific Ocean premixed water. It did not help to raise either. At the guidance of my LHS, I bought Red Sea Coral pro salt as he said it's higher in salinity and PH and mixed it up. After all the salt was dissolved, the refractometer read 35. I heated it and added it to my tank as part of the second water change. I saw a brief spike in salinity (32.7) but this morning it was back down to 32 and my PH is still at 7.6.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Appreciate any help!

 

[madweazl]

Not sure what the LFS was trying to say regarding the salinity and pH but it has no impact to either. The low pH is likely just a test read error (hard to spot a matching color). For tackling the salinity, the easiest way at this point is to just add saltwater to the ATO instead of fresh; as the water evaporates in the tank, it's replaced with saltwater. Start with a gallon and monitor the salinity until you get to the desired level (may take more or less). Once you're at 35ppt in the display, switch back over to freshwater in the ATO.

How are you calibrating the refractometer?

 

[glb]

Hi all. I am new to reefing. I have a Fluval M90, 36 Gallon, AIO system. I have an Apex connected to the tank which I use to monitor. I also use a refractometer which I have calibrated and I am using API test kits to do additional water checks. I started the tank with 25 pounds of cultured, live rock from my LHS and also used live sand. In the filter chambers, I have an InTank media holder that has filter fiber, activated carbon and Fluval biomax biorings. I have a Fluval PS1 protein skimmer and am topping up using a Tunze nano ATO and I use fresh RO water for that. I have no livestock in the tank. Only the live rock and sand.

The tank has been up and running for 2.5 weeks now. I have yet to observe any spike in Ammonia, nitrites or nitrates.

I am struggling to get my PH above 7.6 and my salinity up above 32. I have done two 15% water changes. The first was with Imagitarium Pacific Ocean premixed water. It did not help to raise either. At the guidance of my LHS, I bought Red Sea Coral pro salt as he said it's higher in salinity and PH and mixed it up. After all the salt was dissolved, the refractometer read 35. I heated it and added it to my tank as part of the second water change. I saw a brief spike in salinity (32.7) but this morning it was back down to 32 and my PH is still at 7.6.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Appreciate any help!

You might not get much of a spike with live rock. Do you have nitrates in the tank yet? Sometimes the cycling process can lower ph, but you might have a CO2 problem in the air from a sealed up house. You can test this by taking some tankwater out in a cup and sitting it outside for a while, then check ph again. I don’t know what’s going on with the Salinity, except possibly test error. If you’re using a hydrometer, they’re notorious for inaccurate readings because air bubble can get on the arm. If it’s in your budget, I’d get a refractometer. They’re much more accurate and there are plenty that aren’t pricey. The API test kit is what many of us started with, but it’s not that accurate, especially at low levels for nitrate. It also can give a false positive for ammonia. I use Salifert for nitrates and it’s much better. Good luck!

 

[saintsreturn]

You lost me on the "this salt for salinity" thing. Any salt can be to any salinity level when mixed to the desired ratio. I have done incremental increases before by mixing a slightly higher mix and swapping a gallon a day until i reached my goal. This was on a 75 gallon tank, so adjust the size based on your water volume. Nothing to drastic to avoid shocking the tenants.

That said, how are you calling your levels? If it is mainly off the probe, i would use the refractometer as a primary reader and ignore the probe for now.

 

[KayKaytn]

Not sure what the LFS was trying to say regarding the salinity and pH but it has no impact to either. The low pH is likely just a test read error (hard to spot a matching color). For tackling the salinity, the easiest way at this point is to just add saltwater to the ATO instead of fresh; as the water evaporates in the tank, it's replaced with saltwater. Start with a gallon and monitor the salinity until you get to the desired level (may take more or less). Once you're at 35ppt in the display, switch back over to freshwater in the ATO.

How are you calibrating the refractometer?

Thank you! Will try that. I calibrated the refractometer with distilled water. For the PH, I have used my PH probe from the Apex (calibrated with the supplied solutions) and also tested it with API strips.

 

[Aquavaj]

Are you sure the refractometer is properly calibrated? It should read 1.026 with the calibration fluid. Use a good light source when using it so you'll get a clear, sharp line.

While it's possible that different salt may mix to slightly different salinity levels (same amount of salt and water) you should mix to your preference using a calibrated refractometer. Temperature can affect salinity as well so make sure you test with water temps that is the same as your DT. If the readings are correct then something is wrong and is dumping too much FW beyond normal evaporation. However you should see a rise in water level in the tank if this is occurring. So this kinda points back to making sure the readings are correct.

 

[KayKaytn]

You lost me on the "this salt for salinity" thing. Any salt can be to any salinity level when mixed to the desired ratio. I have done incremental increases before by mixing a slightly higher mix and swapping a gallon a day until i reached my goal. This was on a 75 gallon tank, so adjust the size based on your water volume. Nothing to drastic to avoid shocking the tenants.

That said, how are you calling your levels? If it is mainly off the probe, i would use the refractometer as a primary reader and ignore the probe for now.

Thanks for the reply. I have been using the probe as well as a refractometer. I will try and retest with the refractometer tonight.

 

[KayKaytn]

You might not get much of a spike with live rock. Do you have nitrates in the tank yet? Sometimes the cycling process can lower ph, but you might have a CO2 problem in the air from a sealed up house. You can test this by taking some tankwater out in a cup and sitting it outside for a while, then check ph again. I don’t know what’s going on with the Salinity, except possibly test error. If you’re using a hydrometer, they’re notorious for inaccurate readings because air bubble can get on the arm. If it’s in your budget, I’d get a refractometer. They’re much more accurate and there are plenty that aren’t pricey. The API test kit is what many of us started with, but it’s not that accurate, especially at low levels for nitrate. It also can give a false positive for ammonia. I use Salifert for nitrates and it’s much better. Good luck!

Thanks! I will try taking it outside. I am using a salinity probe connected to my Apex and also a refractometer that I callibrated using distilled water. I think I may have got a small reading of Nitrates using the API test kit as the color seemed to be between 0 and 10 PPM color. But you're right, it is difficult to read the color! Thanks for the advice!

 

[KayKaytn]

Are you sure the refractometer is properly calibrated? It should read 1.026 with the calibration fluid. Use a good light source when using it so you'll get a clear, sharp line.

While it's possible that different salt may mix to slightly different salinity levels (same amount of salt and water) you should mix to your preference using a calibrated refractometer. Temperature can affect salinity as well so make sure you test with water temps that is the same as your DT. If the readings are correct then something is wrong and is dumping too much FW beyond normal evaporation. However you should see a rise in water level in the tank if this is occurring. So this kinda points back to making sure the readings are correct.

I think so. I callibrated using distilled water according to the instructions. I have not seen a rise in the tank level. I'll try to do some more readings tonight and compare between the refractometer, the salinity probe and the refractometer. Thanks for your help!

 

[lapin]

The tank has been up and running for 2.5 weeks now. I have yet to observe any spike in Ammonia, nitrites or nitrates.
I am struggling to get my PH above 7.6 and my salinity up above 32. I have done two 15% water changes. After all the salt was dissolved, the refractometer read 35. I heated it and added it to my tank as part of the second water change. I saw a brief spike in salinity (32.7) but this morning it was back down to 32 and my PH is still at 7.6.
Appreciate any help!

You will not get a spike unless you add an ammonia source since you started with live rock. You can add some Dr Tims ammonia and see if that is converted into nitrates. Usually add enough to raise your ammonia level to 1ppm. It should be gone the next day and converted to nitrate. Confirmation is if you see the nitrates rise and ammonia disappear.
Your refractometer read 35 when you mixed new water, so it is working. Might not be super exact without calibration fluid but it will be close with distilled water. You only changed 15% at 35 so you did not see much of a rise. You can try 15% or 20% at 40 and see what the rise is.
PH Do not worry about PH unless it is below 7. In a new tank it will change. It can go down before it rises. 7.6 is fine. Downb the road it can be raised if needed but no worries for now. If you chase ph you will not catch it. )))))) What you need to monitor is Alkalinity. 8.5 is a good medium number. Can be higher can be lower. Red Sea Coral Pro will raise your alk cal and mag. This salt is very high in those elements and used mainly in tanks that need high levels because SPS hard corals can consume a lot. It can become a problem if you dont need those high levels. I would switch to the red sea std salt. You can mix the 2 until the pro is used up.
Hope this helps a bit.
Keep us posted

 

[KayKaytn]

You will not get a spike unless you add an ammonia source since you started with live rock. You can add some Dr Tims ammonia and see if that is converted into nitrates. Usually add enough to raise your ammonia level to 1ppm. It should be gone the next day and converted to nitrate. Confirmation is if you see the nitrates rise and ammonia disappear.
Your refractometer read 35 when you mixed new water, so it is working. Might not be super exact without calibration fluid but it will be close with distilled water. You only changed 15% at 35 so you did not see much of a rise. You can try 15% or 20% at 40 and see what the rise is.
PH Do not worry about PH unless it is below 7. In a new tank it will change. It can go down before it rises. 7.6 is fine. Downb the road it can be raised if needed but no worries for now. If you chase ph you will not catch it. )))))) What you need to monitor is Alkalinity. 8.5 is a good medium number. Can be higher can be lower. Red Sea Coral Pro will raise your alk cal and mag. This salt is very high in those elements and used mainly in tanks that need high levels because SPS hard corals can consume a lot. It can become a problem if you dont need those high levels. I would switch to the red sea std salt. You can mix the 2 until the pro is used up.
Hope this helps a bit.
Keep us posted

Thanks very much for the tips. Looks like my nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppm if I am matching the color correctly. It's in between those two color options. I tested the DT water this evening with the refractometer (recalibrated using distilled water) and it is reading 35. The API probe and hydrometer still say 32, but I am hoping that the hydrometer is correct. Thanks again for the tips!