Salt cycle

[marktea]

Hey everyone. I have had a fresh water aquarium for over 5 years now. Just a few days ago, I started my first salt water tank!
So I went and got the fluval evo 12. Only mod is additional bag of the micro stone media, sponge and floss. I set the tank up late three nights ago, so today is the second day. I have a 9lb natural purple live rock that was seeded in a friends established tank. Have and additional 4 pounds of both synthetic purple rock and something else Im not quite sure. Looks like petrified wood almost. I have 10 lbs live sand in there, and also added a purple bottle of bacteria. Forgot the name sorry. I have one percula clownfish who is hopefully going to help me walk through what is a brief cycling. Here's my readings!
Day 1(keep in mind set it up the night before)
Ph8.4
Ammonia.5
Nitrite0
Nitrate20

Day 2
Ph7.8 (had to do a top of to correct salinity, forgot to add buff (opps) currently sitting at 8.4 after adjustment)
Ammonia .25-.50
Nitrites.25
Na0
Cal 340
Kh 161.1

Now I haven't had to cycle a tank in 5 years and it's only been fresh water. I can't make sense of these jumping numbers, any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[savetheocean]

Welcome to the salty side! I am also new, so I wont be able to answer this but others will.

 

[brandon429]

howdy

step one, universally agreed up at least here, is take the fish back and proceed exactly as you were going to, but without the fish. the live rock portion will commute all its benefit to the other questionable surfaces within 30 days underwater.


complete all required quarantine programs you can search them out in the fish forum here, before adding any fish. That automatically means 76 more days for this tank, to get the ich out or the brook that was just brought in from non QT fish use. see fish forum/humblefish/quarantine info.

your cycle doesn't need the fish

the 9 lb live rock alone will commute all required benefits to the tank simply held underwater, within 30 days. if you do not want to wait 30 days to be cycled, add more live rock and still complete all QT requirements before a single fish goes back in, including 76 days fallow now required of your tank.

 

[savetheocean]

howdy

step one, universally agreed up at least here, is take the fish back and proceed exactly as you were going to, but without the fish. the live rock portion will commute all its benefit to the other questionable surfaces within 30 days underwater.


complete all required quarantine programs you can search them out in the fish forum here, before adding any fish. That automatically means 76 more days for this tank, to get the ich out or the brook that was just brought in from non QT fish use. see fish forum/humblefish/quarantine info.

your cycle doesn't need the fish

the 9 lb live rock alone will commute all required benefits to the tank simply held underwater, within 30 days. if you do not want to wait 30 days to be cycled, add more live rock and still complete all QT requirements before a single fish goes back in, including 76 days fallow now required of your tank.

I think the fish will be fine, I had two (suggested by my lfs) and they are doing just fine four months later. I also didnt have live rock.

 

[marktea]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Yeah going off of what savetheocean said, I'm going to keep my little buddy. Already I have grown attached to him. With the set up route that I went, my lfs guy swore the route I took to cycle my tank would cycle it in three days. Now, I do not believe that, but he did swear to give me a full refund for the clown if it died because that's how sure he is. After having set up the same tank as me recently. Now the full refund part I will listen to haha. He seems pretty content. I have my parameters in check for the most part so far, my saluting and Gravity is at a good point. That's what I'm really here about. Seeing if someone can tell me what's going on in my cycle with the numbers I have provided. I have new numbers being I preformed a 10% water change a few hours ago. My new numbers are
Ph 8.3
Ammonia .5
Nitrites .25
Nitrates 0
Phosphates .25
Calcium 380
Salinity 32
Gravity 1.024

Again, I've been around the block with a ride variety of experiences relating to aquariums, I am just hoping someone can make sense of these numbers for me.

 

[marktea]

Is this to noob a question ? Or broad saying I just want to understand where I am in the process?

 

[TangingOut]

Your tank is not cycled with the presence of ammonia and nitrites. Your fish shouldn't be in there, because even if it looks and acts fine, it's gills and organs are being damaged.

Clowns are hardy fish and will probably survive, but why put them through that?

Curious how you chose to listen to a self admitted newb, rather than someone who gave a much more detailed answer.

 

[LBReefer]

I had a lfs try to sell me on the same thing. With ammonia that high you are likely hurting the fish. I too went from fresh to salt and learned a lot of lessons the hard way. I'd listen to these guys with more experience. Almost everyone now goes the route of a store bought raw shrimp and waiting a few weeks for your ammonia/nitrogen cycle to work through.

There are mixed reviews on whether you need to qt your first fish. If it turns out to be diseased you are looking at a long wait before adding additional fish.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed all

Additionally, algae battles. Too much nitrogen too soon on rock that has no covering of coralline nor any corals laid down...having fish this early, with not a plan in place, will not work for many reasons though I'm sure with basic arrangements some months can be had from the setup.

If you want to be successful, deliberate, and not guessing, then you should simply buy more real purple live rock and stack a nice base in there, fishless. Lighting is lower intensity as you actually can put in corals quickly if you want to break some rules and still follow any type of coherent plan. We could make your tank a skip cycle, coral included tank and run it ten years. You learn how to battle algae coming by October, enjoy corals, feeding, water changes, and fish come when you are able to make informed reflections on how your tank is doing as an ecosystem.



if you search and google, you can't have fish in the presence of unoxidized ammonia No need for lfs to tell you anything, you already have read that even before you posted here.

I know it seems harsh to not accept every tank offered with a friendly start, but fish+free ammonia= prob

post any link to tank cycling that you have found and read. there are some that allow for instant fish use, but post em, they have specific measures and timing involved so that fish are never involved with free ammonia or nitrite.


Old school drone pilots, before Amazon 2.4 Ghz toys, used to have to source and assemble their own parts and the video systems were atv ham gear...federal comms licensed required. Though the Internet had people willing to sell gear to a non-ham, imagine the scorn when the new person showed up in forums with a bunch of ham gear in need of tuning help, flouting the test the others had passed. All hobbies have minimum guidelines. if you must keep the fish, then you must go add more live rock that is already cured until you read zero ammonia.

 

[marktea]

Again, thank you everyone for the replies. I didn't choose to pick one or the others opinion on the matter, that's my own opinion being that I've had success in my own experience. I give the time and care my tank needs. So I got some new numbers today, check them out:
Day 3-night
Ammonia dropped to 0
Nitrites rise to 50
Nitrates are still at 0 since day 2 (read 20 ppm for nitrates)
What's this mean ?

Edit: read 20 ppm nitrates on day 1

 

[marktea]

Update:
ammonia 0
Nitrites .25
Nitrates 0
Can anyone make sense of the numbers

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Your tank is not cycled with the presence of ammonia and nitrites. Your fish shouldn't be in there, because even if it looks and acts fine, it's gills and organs are being damaged.

Clowns are hardy fish and will probably survive, but why put them through that?

Curious how you chose to listen to a self admitted newb, rather than someone who gave a much more detailed answer.

+1 to this, so upsetting to see people abuse animals like this. Using live fish to cycle a tank is a ******* move; sorry to be a prick about it but it's just how I feel. Good advice was given, but it appears people only listen to advice they want to hear.

 

[marktea]

I didn't ask for advice on opinions on how others feel morally, lol but thanks 2wheel. I simply came here to see if anyone can make sense of my numbers. That's it. I've had a number of aquariums throughout five years. I don't need other keepers opinions. I just never ran into a situation where I started with nitrates and now there completely gone and nitrites are present. While a once semi high ammonia level is gone now for two days, despite regular feeding and my fish.

 

[jpreefer]

I didn't ask for advice on opinions on how others feel morally, lol but thanks 2wheel. I simply came here to see if anyone can make sense of my numbers. That's it. I've had a number of aquariums throughout five years. I don't need other keepers opinions. I just never ran into a situation where I started with nitrates and now there completely gone and nitrites are present. While a once semi high ammonia level is gone now for two days, despite regular feeding and my fish.

You don't need opinions from other reefers, yet here you are asking for opinions on a forum of reefers? Ok.

And yes, it is highly frowned upon using fish to cycle a tank.

 

[domination2580]

Again, thank you everyone for the replies. I didn't choose to pick one or the others opinion on the matter, that's my own opinion being that I've had success in my own experience. I give the time and care my tank needs. So I got some new numbers today, check them out:
Day 3-night
Ammonia dropped to 0
Nitrites rise to 50
Nitrates are still at 0 since day 2 (read 20 ppm for nitrates)
What's this mean ?

Edit: read 20 ppm nitrates on day 1

It means that the bacteria have caught up to the new ammonia being introduced from the clown, it looks as if the nitrates were consumed off the bat for the water that was in it but with the addition of the fish it created more ammonia than what the established system could handle short term hence the new spikes...

 

[marktea]

No jp, as I said in my original post, AND, in the post you just quoted actually, I am in fact NOT asking for opinions. I am however looking for someone to INTERPRET my numbers (which actually isn't an opinion, it's basic in-ter-preting of numbers).
I would rather no one respond and I look else where instead of people like jp responding. Add something to the conversation. Don't just repeat what other people say. Also, don't come here just to be bashful, I heard it the first and second time, trust me you saying it AGAIN doesn't change anything. I replied to everyone about me keeping the fish. I have done it successfully many times. The fish is showing no signs of distress or heavy breathing. My parameters are in check. Nothing lethal or even discomforting at this point either. And if and when there is, I correct it with appropriate water changes done correctly.
If anyone else is going to bother telling me again about my fish, please, just don't. I sleep well at night I morally feel fine and if I didn't, that fish wouldn't be in my tank right now.

Just to be clear, I'm not close minded. If people offer me actual advice, instead of bashfulness and repetition, like I thought I would get on R2R, then I'd be more then happy to listen to them and even take notes. Expanding your mind is key. Thank you to those who have or will help.

 

[marktea]

Thank you domination that clears a lot up for me. Should I preform a water change for the .25 nitrates or would it be better to let it sit to help feed for the nitrates?

 

[domination2580]

Thank you domination that clears a lot up for me. Should I preform a water change for the .25 nitrates or would it be better to let it sit to help feed for the nitrates?

So when cycling a tank ammonia is the first to show up. The bacteria will grow to consume the ammonia. Then the waste product from the bacteria is nitrite. Once all ammonia is gone, the bacteria will eat the nitrite. Then to the nitrate. The bacteria will only enough to what it can consume. More food, more room for the bacteria to grow in numbers. So when it had took the ammonia to 0 it ate the nitrites, and then to nitrates. When you add fish it creates more ammonia so then the colony of bacteria need to grow to be able to consume it all but it takes time to do so. Hence the increase of nitrates. The nitrogen cycle caught up to the added ammonia and concerted it down to nitrate.
As far as a water change, I would leave it but watch it to not go above 10 ppm in a reef tank. If it's just a Fowler tank nitrates will not harm anything. Unless over I'd say 300 ppm. It all depends on what the goal is for the tank. If it's going to be a Fowler I'd leave it, If there are any plans of adding coral then I would watch it and do water changes when necessary. It's easier to keep it under control than to have it high and have to spend twice the amount of time and water changes to get it down.

 

[marktea]

Great help! I appreciate the advice very much thank you !

 

[domination2580]

Great help! I appreciate the advice very much thank you !

No problem! [emoji1] now I don't want you to take this as a mean or even downgrading comment. To sum up what I think everyone else is trying to say is that it is more safer and better to cycle the tank fishless. It is completely up to you and what you decide. When it comes to ammonia, .5 can and will damage the fishes gills decreasing the amount of life it has, potentionatly killing the fish. The best way is to make sure there is no ammonia present by cycling the tank using fish food, or raw table shrimp. 9 times out of 10 it is enough food for the bacteria to grow to forces where adding a fish won't add any ammonia that the bacteria cant handle. Essentially you would have enough bacteria that the ammonia will be converted before it becomes ammonia in the water column making it safer and less harsh for the fish preserving it's life. I recommend cycling without the fish, but so far it seems ok since ammonia is now 0. One other too is they have bacteria in a bottle you can buy that helps with the nitrogen cycle. I always put a bottle of biospira in before to make sure...and then test to make sure it can handle the ammonia that will be present. Another product you can use is seachem prime. It neutralizes the ammonia making it safer for fish. If I ever have Ammonia in my tank I add prime to help the bacteria consume it better and make it safe for the inhabitants. I hope this all helps you understanding it all. Let me know if you have any other questions. [emoji4]