Salt declining

[Night Reefer]

I check with refract before adding any salt. Today I had to add 16 oz of salt as the readings broke the 34 level.refrac was right on.Also no leaks as I can see. I use about 14 g of top off per week. Open sump and open top

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Another reason why one doesn’t use a salinity probe for anything. [emoji3]
Best to use a refractometer than a probe. You are getting false readings. Found this out years ago when I first started using one. Not a useful probe so stopped messing with it all the time. Just do it by eye now much better.

lol

If I buy a crappy refractometer, does that mean others do not work well?

IMO a quality conductivity probe is a great way to go. Those tied to hobby controllers may have complicated issues that stand alone meters (like an Orion 128 with a 4 electrode probe) do not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I check with refract before adding any salt. Today I had to add 16 oz of salt as the readings broke the 34 level.refrac was right on.Also no leaks as I can see. I use about 14 g of top off per week. Open sump and open top

16 oz of salt water, or salt mix itself?

 

[MnFish1]

I check with refract before adding any salt. Today I had to add 16 oz of salt as the readings broke the 34 level.refrac was right on.Also no leaks as I can see. I use about 14 g of top off per week. Open sump and open top

I had asked before how big your tank is and how does your ATO add water to your system - is it constant or intermittent. Still wondering why you are concerned because your salinity has dropped from 35 to 34? I mean that is a change of 1.0264 to 1.0256 with the refractometer that I use, I would barely see the difference between those numbers. In any case - I looked at my apex graph of salinity - and it varies just as yours does - and I don't pay attention to it at all. The only time I even check my salinity (with the refractometer) is every several weeks when I change water to make sure they are similar.

You said you use the Triton method - How much 'additive' are you adding (volume wise) and are those solutions affecting the salinity measurement somehow? (I don't know if the triton solutions have a higher or lower specific gravity than 1.026...

You also said that you take out a gallon or so every week or so - depending on the size of your tank (assuming fresh water is being added) that will lower your salinity.

My guess is that you're also underestimating the amount of salt you're losing with 'spray' or 'creep'. for example the wall behind my tank has a fine coating of salt which I have to wipe off periodically - there is also salt behind my tank on the tile floor.

Lastly, if you are going to use your salinity probe on the apex to judge this, I would tend to use a ball park 'average' of the numbers on a given day - rather than picking the high and the low - because your numbers (as mine are) are all over the place.

 

[reefwiser]

lol

If I buy a crappy refractometer, does that mean others do not work well?

IMO a quality conductivity probe is a great way to go. Those tied to hobby controllers may have complicated issues that stand alone meters (like an Orion 128 with a 4 electrode probe) do not.

Randy, what probe are you using on your aquarium currently? So you trust a conductivity probe over a refractometer then?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy, what probe are you using on your aquarium currently? So you trust a conductivity probe over a refractometer then?

I do not recommend leaving any conductivity probe in the water 24/7. I think that's a part of the problem with APEX. bubbles, deposits, etc.

Yes, I trust my Orion 128 over a hobby refractometer. It has a much bigger range (can measure RO/DI, limewater, and seawater salinity). It is more precise (meaning it can read finer differences). It never drifts, and can be easily checked with commercial or DIY conductivity solutions, and measures in real time, so for things like acclimation, reading both temp and conductivity continuously.

 

[reefwiser]

I don't think most of the probes that the average person has available to them are much good for any thing. I think is was a way to "monitor" sort of things to make people feel they have things under control. Most people do not have the probes mounted in places that they will read correctly or will keep them calibrated on a regular basis to rely on their readings.

 

[Night Reefer]

16 oz of salt water, or salt mix itself?

Salt mix added to water than added to the tank brings it up a bit. I do add more but I learned to do it over time as I added too much once.

 

[Night Reefer]

I had asked before how big your tank is and how does your ATO add water to your system - is it constant or intermittent. Still wondering why you are concerned because your salinity has dropped from 35 to 34? I mean that is a change of 1.0264 to 1.0256 with the refractometer that I use, I would barely see the difference between those numbers. In any case - I looked at my apex graph of salinity - and it varies just as yours does - and I don't pay attention to it at all. The only time I even check my salinity (with the refractometer) is every several weeks when I change water to make sure they are similar.

You said you use the Triton method - How much 'additive' are you adding (volume wise) and are those solutions affecting the salinity measurement somehow? (I don't know if the triton solutions have a higher or lower specific gravity than 1.026...

You also said that you take out a gallon or so every week or so - depending on the size of your tank (assuming fresh water is being added) that will lower your salinity.

My guess is that you're also underestimating the amount of salt you're losing with 'spray' or 'creep'. for example the wall behind my tank has a fine coating of salt which I have to wipe off periodically - there is also salt behind my tank on the tile floor.

Lastly, if you are going to use your salinity probe on the apex to judge this, I would tend to use a ball park 'average' of the numbers on a given day - rather than picking the high and the low - because your numbers (as mine are) are all over the place.

I replied to other threads with you answers
180
No additives do to the fact that every time I add salt my ALK goes up and need to come down. Ato is with the apex ato so it happens many times a day. I always Use my refractometer to check the salt before adding. In the last week no water was removed. The levels take
About 10day to decline from 36 to 34 without removing any water.

 

[MnFish1]

I replied to other threads with you answers
180
No additives do to the fact that every time I add salt my ALK goes up and need to come down. Ato is with the apex ato so it happens many times a day. I always Use my refractometer to check the salt before adding. In the last week no water was removed. The levels take
About 10day to decline from 36 to 34 without removing any water.

Thanks - I thought I read you were using the 'Triton' method - which means you're adding liquids to your tank.
So in 2 weeks your SG drops from 1.0271 to 1.0256. For 240 gallons of water that means you either would have to be adding 14 gallons of fresh water every 2 weeks 'extra' to drop the SG that much or losing about 9 cups of salt. Thats also a lot of salt creep lol. I doubt that your tank could be leaking that much every 2 weeks without you noticing it (i.e. a gallon/day). You said that you are topping off about 28 gallons/2 weeks.

The calculations above are probably off due to the fact that you dont just have 'water' in your tank and sump (ie. the total water volume in your system is not 240 gallons). But it gives you an idea. In any case you are either adding too much water (somehow) - about 14 gallons every 2 weeks - or you're losing about 9 cups of salt via creep, etc. Or your measurements are in error (i.e. the temperature of the water when you're measuring the specific gravity is different, etc. The daily fluctuations you see are probably the probe and not significant.

The other funny thing is that if it only takes 4 cups of salt to bring your salinity up to 36 from 34, either you only have about 120 gallons of actual 'water' in your system - or your measurements are in error

 

[Night Reefer]

Thanks - I thought I read you were using the 'Triton' method - which means you're adding liquids to your tank.
So in 2 weeks your SG drops from 1.0271 to 1.0256. For 240 gallons of water that means you either would have to be adding 14 gallons of fresh water every 2 weeks 'extra' to drop the SG that much or losing about 9 cups of salt. Thats also a lot of salt creep lol. I doubt that your tank could be leaking that much every 2 weeks without you noticing it (i.e. a gallon/day). You said that you are topping off about 28 gallons/2 weeks.

The calculations above are probably off due to the fact that you dont just have 'water' in your tank and sump (ie. the total water volume in your system is not 240 gallons). But it gives you an idea. In any case you are either adding too much water (somehow) - about 14 gallons every 2 weeks - or you're losing about 9 cups of salt via creep, etc. Or your measurements are in error (i.e. the temperature of the water when you're measuring the specific gravity is different, etc. The daily fluctuations you see are probably the probe and not significant.

The other funny thing is that if it only takes 4 cups of salt to bring your salinity up to 36 from 34, either you only have about 120 gallons of actual 'water' in your system - or your measurements are in error

It’s a total of 180 plus about 40 due to the sump not full to the top and rock and sand on the DT. I use about 14g every week and add about 16oz every 10 days or so. Last time a few days ago I added the 16oz but that did not bring it up to 36, it just raised it a bit to prevent a below 34 reading. Everyone talks about the probe not being accurate and it fluctuates,very true. I use my refractometer for final measurements and my concern is the loss of salt not fluctuations. I am using the Fritz’s salt now which has a lower ALK at 8 to 9 at 35 then my current that is instant ocean is 11 at 32. This should bring down the ALK a bit so can start dosing my triton chems

 

[MnFish1]

It’s a total of 180 plus about 40 due to the sump not full to the top and rock and sand on the DT. I use about 14g every week and add about 16oz every 10 days or so. Last time a few days ago I added the 16oz but that did not bring it up to 36, it just raised it a bit to prevent a below 34 reading. Everyone talks about the probe not being accurate and it fluctuates,very true. I use my refractometer for final measurements and my concern is the loss of salt not fluctuations. I am using the Fritz’s salt now which has a lower ALK at 8 to 9 at 35 then my current that is instant ocean is 11 at 32. This should bring down the ALK a bit so can start dosing my triton chems

There is no 'danger' if your salinity slowly drops to 34. There is probably more of an issue rapidly bringing it up to 36. I understand that you're using a refractometer - but you're quoting all your numbers in salinity. The difference between 34 and 36 is hard to see - depending on the refractometer. But in any case you have the answer to your question - since you're the only one that's in your home, you'll have to figure out where 1) you're losing salt 2) you're adding too much water or 3) your measurements are in error. But - there are calculators out there - and if you are only adding 1 pound every 10 days something is wrong with your measurements. Because according to this calculator to bring a tank (220 gallons) from a salinity of 34 to 36 it should require 4.62 pounds of salt. https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/DirectSaltCalculator.php

 

[Night Reefer]

There is no 'danger' if your salinity slowly drops to 34. There is probably more of an issue rapidly bringing it up to 36. I understand that you're using a refractometer - but you're quoting all your numbers in salinity. The difference between 34 and 36 is hard to see - depending on the refractometer. But in any case you have the answer to your question - since you're the only one that's in your home, you'll have to figure out where 1) you're losing salt 2) you're adding too much water or 3) your measurements are in error. But - there are calculators out there - and if you are only adding 1 pound every 10 days something is wrong with your measurements. Because according to this calculator to bring a tank (220 gallons) from a salinity of 34 to 36 it should require 4.62 pounds of salt. https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/DirectSaltCalculator.php

Okay slight problem the 16 oz is not weight but volume. I use a solo cup of salt to a quart of water than pour it in the sump. Past the probe location not to throw off the numbers. I never had salt decrease in past tanks this quickly so this a concern. Not knowing if this is normal or not.

 

[MnFish1]

Okay slight problem the 16 oz is not weight but volume. I use a solo cup of salt to a quart of water than pour it in the sump. Past the probe location not to throw off the numbers. I never had salt decrease in past tanks this quickly so this a concern. Not knowing if this is normal or not.

In any case - a 16 ounce cup is no where near that amount of salt it would take to raise the salinity of 220 gallons of water from 34 to 36. That is about 1.125 lbs of salt - as mentioned about - using the calculator provided - you would need 5 lbs of salt to increase your salinity from 34 to 36 - thus your measurements are off (either the volume of water in your tank, your refractometer etc).

 

[MnFish1]

No additives do to the fact that every time I add salt my ALK goes up and need to come down.

BTW adding 16 oz of salt mix to a 220 gallon aquarium should not significantly raise the alkalinity a significant amount. Something is wrong with how you are measuring things - seems to me. Unless you mean it raised the alkalinity from 8.3 to 8.7 - or something like that - which is not significant.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I do not recommend leaving any conductivity probe in the water 24/7. I think that's a part of the problem with APEX. bubbles, deposits, etc.

There is more truth in that statement than meets the eye. What is that old saying "trust but verify?"

The APEX probe provides directional data. Over time you learn to notice what is typical drift and what is a problem that warrants pulling out a refractometer to check.

 

[Night Reefer]

Very true but for some reason now the salt leveled out, its been 14 days and I am still in the 35 range. I changed nothing and removed water to acclimate some new fish and corals. I would say I removed about 2 gallon. Compare this to before when I remove no water and I had it add salt in about 10 days. Like I said no other changes I did check my numbers with the refractometer to compare it to the probe and I was off by .2. Still can’t figure why but I’m not gonna complain and go on my way even though I’m a why guy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m glad it seems to be under control. [emoji3]

 

[Night Reefer]

Don’t know why it will Kill me but o well thanks

 

[BluewaterLa]

If you are using a sump with ATO reservoir built in there could be a small leak in the acrylic seam that is allowing fresh water to constantly leak into tank water.
You can check this by shutting down the system and draining the sump leaving ATO section full for a day, Monitor the level.
Also if the leak is bad enough the top off water may have some Sg to it from salt water coming into the section if the leak is low enough.
One thing that may have happened is the leak finally stopped by some form of growth or bio film clogging it up.