Salt mix to start up a new system.

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have checked this salt mix but it seems to be made for RO/DI water.

There's no way that a salt mix can be made for tap water since tap water is not anything in particular, except:

1. It may have added metal chelators to reduce the toxicity of heavy metals like copper.

2. it may have dechlorinator in it.

I'm not aware of any that fit #2. Some (Like Reef Crystals) may have metal chelators in them.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

A brand I found mentioning the use of tap water in the directives of use is Seachem: SeaSalt, Reef salt, VibrantSea . I have no information yet about the differences in the formula.
Odd that there are no special salt mixes for starting up a tank as I would not care about the fact that the salt would contain some ammonia, nitrate and phosphate and such a mix would probably be less expensive to produce. There is also a big difference in price setting between sea salt and reef salt of the same brand.

In Belgium no chloramine is used in the tap water and chlorine is not that difficult to remove.

We can also clean the tap water, making it suitable for all salt mixes.
To remove copper and other metals from tap water we can use Diakat. This German product made from Iron hydroxide is normally used as a phosphate absorber and it is cheap., +- 5€/l, A lot cheaper as buying 4000 litre demineralised water or installing a RO unit and waste 8000 lit of tap water. https://www.reefanalytics.com/dokumente/Datenblatt DIAKAT B englisch.pdf

As I life +- 130 km from the coast the use of natural seawater, only for starting up, is also an option.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Odd that there are no special salt mixes for starting up a tank as I would not care about the fact that the salt would contain some ammonia, nitrate and phosphate and such a mix would probably be less expensive to produce. There is also a big difference in price setting between sea salt and reef salt of the same brand.
.

I would think the market to be very, very small for a brand of salt that said it was contaminated so was only suitable for a new system undergoing cycling.

 

[Tautog]

By far, and mostly over - looked, extremely under- rated, and a key ingredient to a reef success is R/O water. JMHO, but salt, if the “ top rated “ or “ high end “ coral vendors are using Instant Ocean Basic or Reef Crystals, and have great success, why would, or how could you justify the extra cost? Are the extras worth the extra cash? I use Reef Crystals, and used Instant Ocean 35 yrs ago.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Of coarse the price setting is a decision maker. We need +- 4000 l to start up and minimum the same amount on a yearly base. +- 250kg salt the first year. Prices from 34€ for 25kg till more than 100€ for 22kg and they all are the best salt mix on the market. From natural sources or pure synthetic, it seems not change the price much because both are represented in the expensive and less expensive range.

The intention is a natural mixed reef based on biofilters, no live rock.

I noticed that Aquaforest has also non "probiotic" reefsalt on sale, retailing in the Netherlands and Belgium at about 40% the price of Tropic Marine , Instant ocean, Reef Cristals, Red Sea,
As price is a decision maker, this salt may cut down the costs considerably. I have posted the question on a Dutch forum but as it is also distributed in the US, all info from users is welcome.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

My post on the Dutch forum had the following response: https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/

 

[Belgian Anthias]

My post on the Dutch forum had the following response: https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/

At a price difference of +- 2.5€/kg we would be able to spend over 625€ on something else within budget the first year if we change to Aqua forest Reef Salt.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

By far, and mostly over - looked, extremely under- rated, and a key ingredient to a reef success is R/O water. JMHO, but salt, if the “ top rated “ or “ high end “ coral vendors are using Instant Ocean Basic or Reef Crystals, and have great success, why would, or how could you justify the extra cost? Are the extras worth the extra cash? I use Reef Crystals, and used Instant Ocean 35 yrs ago.

Others will say it is live rock which is the key ingredient of success. The rock which will "contaminate" the sterile water we used to start up.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

There's no way that a salt mix can be made for tap water since tap water is not anything in particular, except:

1. It may have added metal chelators to reduce the toxicity of heavy metals like copper.

2. it may have dechlorinator in it.

I'm not aware of any that fit #2. Some (Like Reef Crystals) may have metal chelators in them.

Tap water contains a lot of calcium which can be taken in account. pH is above 8 ( better for the pipes including those made of copper) and it has conductivity. Some time ago they started to make special mixes for the use of RO/DI water. This must be because the mixes of that time where NOT made for RO/DI water otherwise they did not had to make a special mix for RO/DI. If one compare the salt mixes from the late 90's and the mixes commercialized now there is a little difference. I suppose a lot of these mixes which where not made for RO/DI water where made with the use of tap water in mind?

 

[bgoldb]

Tap water contains a lot of calcium which can be taken in account. pH is above 8 ( better for the pipes including those made of copper) and it has conductivity. Some time ago they started to make special mixes for the use of RO/DI water. This must be because the mixes of that time where NOT made for RO/DI water otherwise they did not had to make a special mix for RO/DI. If one compare the salt mixes from the late 90's and the mixes commercialized now there is a little difference. I suppose a lot of these mixes which where not made for RO/DI water where made with the use of tap water in mind?

You are making a lot of assumptions.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

The fact that RO/DI water is advised by all manufacturers of sea salt mixes and it is generally used makes it a lot easier for them to deliver seawater with the parameters they advertise. ( if the RO/DI water is of good quality) As they do not have to promote there product as ideal for to be mixed with well water, rain or tap water and adapt there formula to these waters they all deliver the best seawater for fish and corals possible. As all brands give about the same results making a choice is easy, choose the cheapest one.
Also for someone who wants to use tap water, one only can choose a brand made for ROI water. One will end up with high calcium and different pH as advertised but that should not be a problem.
Comparative tests of salt mixes always compare the results to natural seawater. In the sea all building materials are available, some in very small amounts but they can be supplied without limitations. How ideal is natural seawater for a closed system as the supply of building materials is very limited. For the main ingredients we can easily follow what happens but what about all the rest we can not measure? They have to be delivered by the food we bring in and will only be available after been cycled and mineralised.
What makes a salt mix ideal for corals and how one brand will be better for the corals than the other if they all contain natural quantities. To stay ideal for the corals one has to change system water every day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Tap water contains a lot of calcium which can be taken in account. pH is above 8 ( better for the pipes including those made of copper) and it has conductivity. Some time ago they started to make special mixes for the use of RO/DI water. This must be because the mixes of that time where NOT made for RO/DI water otherwise they did not had to make a special mix for RO/DI. If one compare the salt mixes from the late 90's and the mixes commercialized now there is a little difference. I suppose a lot of these mixes which where not made for RO/DI water where made with the use of tap water in mind?

Tap water could contain calcium, but it also may not. Thus, it would seem foolish to assume tap water is going to add any specific amount

 

[tthouston]

Coralife salt mix is the one. It cheap and good as brand name. Google is your friend.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Tap water could contain calcium, but it also may not. Thus, it would seem foolish to assume tap water is going to add any specific amount

It would be a good thing for the water cooker or coffee machine if there was no calcium in the tap water, very bad news for the water softener salesmen. Water companies don't remove all calcium or even ad calcium when the water is soft as soft water is not very friendly for the contribution system, the pipe lines. Certainly for homes with private distribution systems made of copper ( soldered with lead) or even still have some lead piping. ( causing coachman's disease in previous times). Adding calcium prevents corrosion of the pipelines. In Belgium the minimum calcium content in tap water is set by law, minimum 15°F. Tap water without calcium ( soft water) can not be advised for consumption..

I have to rephrase my question and change tap water into drinking water as I wrongly assumed talking about the same thing.

Any way, being lucky to have tap water of good quality, I am able to produce +- 12000l metal free and phosphorus free mixing water for 10€, using one litre of diakat and having the benefit of adding free calcium and magnesium to the system. No drinking water is wasted to produce RO water. I see only benefits, and not only financially.

Of coarse this is for starting up a new system, a system that needs a lot of basic elements to install the biodiversity needed to install the needed carrying capacity. But I will send a sample of the diakat cleaned water for testing, I am pretty convinced I can use it also for top off water and for water changes.

How foolish is adding free calcium and magnesium? How foolish it would be to assume that using RO/DI water will solve everything and prevents contamination as one week later so called live rock is added containing who knows what?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Thanks for contributing to this threat.
I have the information to convince myself there is nothing wrong with using drinking water for starting up a reef aquarium, certainly when able to clean it with an absorber. New information about different brands and there composition, saving me a lot of money when choosing the cheapest one.

I have made my choice.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It would be a good thing for the water cooker or coffee machine if there was no calcium in the tap water, very bad news for the water softener salesmen. Water companies don't remove all calcium or even ad calcium when the water is soft as soft water is not very friendly for the contribution system, the pipe lines. Certainly for homes with private distribution systems made of copper ( soldered with lead) or even still have some lead piping. ( causing coachman's disease in previous times). Adding calcium prevents corrosion of the pipelines. In Belgium the minimum calcium content in tap water is set by law, minimum 15°F. Tap water without calcium ( soft water) can not be advised for consumption..

I have to rephrase my question and change tap water into drinking water as I wrongly assumed talking about the same thing.

Any way, being lucky to have tap water of good quality, I am able to produce +- 12000l metal free and phosphorus free mixing water for 10€, using one litre of diakat and having the benefit of adding free calcium and magnesium to the system. No drinking water is wasted to produce RO water. I see only benefits, and not only financially.

Of coarse this is for starting up a new system, a system that needs a lot of basic elements to install the biodiversity needed to install the needed carrying capacity. But I will send a sample of the diakat cleaned water for testing, I am pretty convinced I can use it also for top off water and for water changes.

How foolish is adding free calcium and magnesium? How foolish it would be to assume that using RO/DI water will solve everything and prevents contamination as one week later so called live rock is added containing who knows what?

According to my water company report (serving much of the state of Massachusetts in the USA), we have 2-5 ppm calcium in our water. There is no requirement in the US for how low calcium can be. In the US in water supplies I surveyed for an article years ago, values typically ranged from 5 to 100 ppm calcium.

Since there is such variability, how can a salt mix "account" for the calcium in tap water? What level should calcium be in a mix "designed" to use tap water?

It really doesn't make sense to try, IMO.

 

[chefjpaul]

Use distilled bottled water & hannah CA checker (as recommended). The left over CA from RODI can sway test results, (according to hannah), therefore, if one is worried about a minute amount from rodi / tap water, the end result of a test from the mixed water would be target.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

According to my water company report (serving much of the state of Massachusetts in the USA), we have 2-5 ppm calcium in our water. There is no requirement in the US for how low calcium can be. In the US in water supplies I surveyed for an article years ago, values typically ranged from 5 to 100 ppm calcium.

Since there is such variability, how can a salt mix "account" for the calcium in tap water? What level should calcium be in a mix "designed" to use tap water?

It really doesn't make sense to try, IMO.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

As reef aquaria need supplemental calcium, the content of calcium at start up does not matter much as the content must be tuned anyway. The calcium level will not influence the installation of the carrying capacity of the system.
Calcium and magnesium added via drinking water does not change much for managing these elements, it is a free additive.
As metals, phosphorus and silicate can be removed easily and cheap out of drinking water, without wasting it, why one would buy a RO/DI installation to remove calcium , magnesium and minerals which one has to add afterwards and by which a lot of good drinking water is wasted?
Commercial and industrial demineralisated ( RO water) water is often produced in low pressure RO installations. It is used by professional window cleaners and in industrial washing installations as it leaves no stripes. This water may still contain some heavy metals and other " contaminants".
Technical grade is demineralised in high pressure RO installations and is a lot more expensive.

And it is true, it doesn't make sense to search for a salt mix that matches best with the mixing water used as there is not much difference, they are all good enough.

I will use Colombo in the future for intermediate water changes as it is very low in Sulphate. And for starting up the new system and standard water changes I will use the cheapest one of this test. https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/ Some premium brands are not include in this test as the test contains brands popular in Poland.

Thank you for being part of the discussion.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

For BADES users:
I found out that Colombo is a Dutch brand, I do not know if it is distributed in the US. The test gives a content of 490 mg S/l, the manufacturer gives a value between 700 and 800 mgS/l which is still low enough for the salt to be able to correct the sulphate production of BADES and keep the sulphate content below natural concentration in all circumstances even at a very high bioload.
This threat was helpful to me. Thanks