saltwater guppies

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

so ive been working on making freshwater guppies saltwater guppie and i finally have success i just slowly raised the salt content of my fresh water tank and now they are completely saltwater fish i noticed they became more vibrant and more sexually active over time i also have a molly in with them

steve&mari · Jun 27, 2015

Heard of doing it with Molly's but guppies is a new one for me lol. Good luck and wonder if it shortens lifespan or anything. Pretty cool tho.

4FordFamily · Jun 27, 2015

Many livebearers can be switched to salt slowly. Very cool though

Keith_0011 · Jun 27, 2015

I also just switched some mollies over. I was aiming for 5ppt per day increase (or around 0.004 SG). Makes a week to and a half a nice safe timeline.

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

i used a drip u can see it in the hoses in the back one has salt going in and one fresh out i did this 5 min a day for a week and they are at full salinity for a month now

redfishbluefish · Jun 27, 2015

That is wild! Also heard of mollies, but never guppies. How long did it take to raise the salinity?

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

figured fry would make great live food for my salties this was the purpose

cu455 · Jun 27, 2015

Very cool. I used to breed them in my fuge. My guppies were the wild type so they didn't have much color.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

I know many people do this, but IMO, this is likely greatly stressing their osmotic systems and seems cruel. I'm not a fan.

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

i did research and have found many cases were guppies lived in saltwater for three years and seeing average guppy life is close to two if you take care of them properly i think that if done properly these fish can adapt very well to saltwater . guppies are found wild in saltwater estuaries in the gulf of mexico hence there capability to be converted alot of research was done before trying this and constant monitoring for the month following none showed no sines of stress nor did they even flash which is a sign of stress in guppies due to water parameters changing i had guppies for almost 7 years and learned quite a bit all those you see in the saltwater were bred and raised by me i did saltwater dips on these fish once a month for a year to rid of parasites this also will acclimate their body to the salt without causing stress and shock so i feel very safe in doing this believe me i love my fish and if i see signs of stress i will start lowering the salinity of there tank slowly untill there is none at all but i do consider them to be u success i have also noticed that my freshwater guppies get ich quite often but the salties show no sign of ich or stress related to ich or any other fish related illness if the lord can put guppies in saltwater estuaries then i think its safe to say they are brackish fish and probably were not naturally freshwater fish or maybe this is an evolutional trait given to ensure there survival

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

mr.reeferman said:
i did research and have found many cases were guppies lived in saltwater for three years and seeing average guppy life is close to two if you take care of them properly i think that if done properly these fish can adapt very well to saltwater . guppies are found wild in saltwater estuaries in the gulf of mexico hence there capability to be converted alot of research was done before trying this and constant monitoring for the month following none showed no sines of stress nor did they even flash which is a sign of stress in guppies due to water parameters changing i had guppies for almost 7 years and learned quite a bit all those you see in the saltwater were bred and raised by me i did saltwater dips on these fish once a month for a year to rid of parasites this also will acclimate their body to the salt without causing stress and shock so i feel very safe in doing this believe me i love my fish and if i see signs of stress i will start lowering the salinity of there tank slowly untill there is none at all but i do consider them to be u success i have also noticed that my freshwater guppies get ich quite often but the salties show no sign of ich or stress related to ich or any other fish related illness if the lord can put guppies in saltwater estuaries then i think its safe to say they are brackish fish and probably were not naturally freshwater fish or maybe this is an evolutional trait given to ensure there survival

I disagree with you.

FWIW, they are not found in full salt water constantly, are they? Anywhere? Despite being in rivers in many locations that end in the ocean. So obviously they do not successfully move out of brackish estuaries and into the ocean (and most of the time not even stay long term in those estuaries. Wonder why? I expect it is the salt, but perhaps you disagree.

A fish can also live for years in a box barely larger than its body. For that matter, so could you. Does that mean it is desirable?

I personally think it desirable to keep fish in the environments they live in naturally, or as close to it as we can provide. You intentionally keep them in an environment that they are NEVER naturally thriving in (full strength seawater)

You seem to think it good enough if they live, regardless of whether it might be natural or comfortable for them. I find that attitude in an aquarist disappointing.

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

i sum it up to the variety of fish in the ocean that are carnivorouse its not always about living conditions when looking at behavioral aspects of fish think of it like middle school a nerd can do just fine but if he is bullied by the bigger kids it sometimes leads to the nerd committing suicide that is why i think guppies dont swim into the ocean because they are slow swimmers not equipped to run from faster predatory fish and there colors would also allure most saltwater predators but in freshwater this coloration is abnormal and predators stay away thus why they prefer but are not limited to fresh or brackish water if i lived in a box barely bigger than myself then i would be extremely stressed and show extreme signs of wich thus being said my fish have shown no stress only increase in activity sexual activity and an increase in color and normally in fish especially freshwater fish an increase in color also means an increase in vigor and an increase in vigor would not come if they were in unfit conditions a guppies body would become a bloated boxy shape they would losse color and stay at the top of the water gasping for air this has yet to happen in any of my fish i have never had a fish die EVER and i sum that up to i know how to read a fishes behavior actually all the fish in my saltwater tank were sick when purchased and i brought them back to health my two clowns had marine velvet my damsel was covered in ich and had a bad swim bladder my goby only has one eye and had just lost the one when i got him he was in the wrong tank my pygmy angel was a pale white color when i got him i summed it up to immune deficiency and eventually got him better ... so if i have never lost a fish and im not seeing stress in any of my fish then i think i am doing just fine

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

Well, at least you have a theory to justify your behavior. Hopefully it helps you sleep at night.

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

ones opinion is ones opinion only way to learn is through experience and through my experience my fish are still happy and healthy im sorry this hurts your heart but only way to prove either of our theory is to test them i will not let any of these fish die and you shouldnt put ones theory down when im sure you have plenty of your own

cu455 · Jun 27, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I disagree with you.

FWIW, they are not found in full salt water constantly, are they? Anywhere? Despite being in rivers in many locations that end in the ocean. So obviously they do not successfully move out of brackish estuaries and into the ocean (and most of the time not even stay long term in those estuaries. Wonder why? I expect it is the salt, but perhaps you disagree.

A fish can also live for years in a box barely larger than its body. For that matter, so could you. Does that mean it is desirable?

I personally think it desirable to keep fish in the environments they live in naturally, or as close to it as we can provide. You intentionally keep them in an environment that they are NEVER naturally thriving in (full strength seawater)

You seem to think it good enough if they live, regardless of whether it might be natural or comfortable for them. I find that attitude in an aquarist disappointing.

How can you tell if a fish is thriving? I don't notice any buoyancy issues in my guppies, gill movement looks normal and they are breeding. Guppies might not thrive in a marine environment, but you should explain your reasoning a little better. What issues are caused by keeping guppies in saltwater? How will these issues affect its health?

I saw guppies in full marine while diving off of Texas a few years ago. There were also gars living the marine environment. On Long Island we have species of killie fish that live from fresh to marine water. American Eels and scats are also found in diffrent water conditions. It is not that uncommon in nature.

Your small box argument doesn't really hold weight in this discussion. The guppies have plenty of space. If a human lives in a box a little larger then your body they will have visible deformities and more them likely die prematurely. Look at the health issues John McCain suffers from because he was kept in a small cage when he was a POW. That was only be kept in a small enclosure for a short period of time. Forget about the tang police we got the guppy police.

Humblefish · Jun 27, 2015

So, is it considered "cruel" to convert mollies over to full SW? Or just full FW species such as guppies, platies, etc.

4FordFamily · Jun 27, 2015

My guppies live in strawberry juice

NeuroticAquatics · Jun 27, 2015

Weren't these going to be used as food? If so, why convert them to saltwater?

I'm not sure I'm against the conversion. I have never read anything about this causing issues and to assume it does kinda seems more like speculation than science. I'm interested in seeing how it goes long term.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

cu455 said:
How can you tell if a fish is thriving? I don't notice any buoyancy issues in my guppies, gill movement looks normal and they are breeding. Guppies might not thrive in a marine environment, but you should explain your reasoning a little better. What issues are caused by keeping guppies in saltwater? How will these issues affect its health?.

I do not know that they experience discomfort any more than you know that they do not. So we may just have to leave it at that.

Your simple observations do not say anything more than that you are avoiding obvious problems. When I have a headache, can you tell by looking at me? In fact. most health issues for humans do not show obvious external signals. That's why you get all sorts of other tests when you get a physical exam.

I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the issues of putting a freshwater or brackish fish in full strength seawater. Marine fish spend a lot of energy pumping out salt that penetrates their systems. Guppies that are put into brackish water experience cellular changes to try to adapt to the salt and be able to pump it out. This is shown in the scientific literature. Is that forced morphological change comfortable? Are they comfortable when it is completed?

cu455 said:
I saw guppies in full marine while diving off of Texas a few years ago. There were also gars living the marine environment. On Long Island we have species of killie fish that live from fresh to marine water. American Eels and scats are also found in diffrent water conditions. It is not that uncommon in nature..

Quite true. There are a few fish that freely move from full salt water to fresh and back again. They are the exception, not the rule. Guppies are not among them. Not sure what you saw, but guppies as a rule do not live in full strength seawater. Do some get swept into the ocean? Sure. Just like tropical marine fish get swept into the Gulf Stream and ultimately into the North Atlantic, to die. Doesn't mean they like it.

cu455 said:
Your small box argument doesn't really hold weight in this discussion. The guppies have plenty of space. If a human lives in a box a little larger then your body they will have visible deformities and more them likely die prematurely. Look at the health issues John McCain suffers from because he was kept in a small cage when he was a POW. That was only be kept in a small enclosure for a short period of time.

Sure it holds weight as an analogy. A fish or person in a box a little bigger than their bodies will not show deformities. McCain was beaten 2-3 times a week for an extended period. That's is obviously a different situation. But I don't want folks do that to their fish either.