Save the Tang! Is it ich, fluke, or else?

[mzlskink]

Sorry it’s hard to get a still photo of him, he is swimming well, but sometimes rubs against rock, I thought those could be flukes but prazipro did not seem to help much. This has been there for about 4 days now

Help needed! Save him

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry it’s hard to get a still photo of him, he is swimming well, but sometimes rubs against rock, I thought those could be flukes but prazipro did not seem to help much. This has been there for about 4 days now

Help needed! Save him

These do appear to be Eye flukes and behaviors you describe may very well be. Other signs are yawning, itching against objects, hiding, rapid breathing.
Treatment of choice is PraziPro and while reef safe I prefer QT tank for treating but not necessary. If in dislay tank, remove your skimmer cup but leave the skimmer running as prazi-pro will make your skimmer go nuts. It will produce a high amount of bubbles so still have your skimmer running to keep the oxygen levels high in the water as some medications like praz-pro can lower the amount of oxygen in the water which is something you want to avoid so I recommend running an airstone in addition to treatment.
Also . . . remove any type of carbon that you have running to allow Prazi to run at full strength which will be an initial treatment for an 8 day interval, change water and treat again for one more dose 8 day interval. To be safe, treat at 85% of recommended dosage

 

[Daz_1978]

I second the above answer.
Looks like flukes… and PraziPro is the answer.
I would also use a quarantine/hospital tank, if available.

One way to know it’s fluke for sure is a fresh water dip. Some will fall off the fish, and you can see them in the bottom of the container used for the dip.

 

[mzlskink]

I did a freshwater dip but did not notice anything fall off, also I did prazipro in DT with no carbon but it did not seem to help

The fish was lethargic today and I caught it, it went through a freshwater dip and now sitting in a quarantee bucket - hope it will make a comeback but with all the stress, I don't know at this point

Thank you guys for the help!

 

[Duane family]

There are a few things to consider here. To start I agree that the images point to flukes on the eye which is fairly common. Normally a FW dip for 5min will see the flukes turn white and fall off.

What concerns me is that normally skin flukes on the exterior of the eye cannot be seen with the human eye when they are alive on smallish fish as they are completely translucent. In your images the flukes are visible before the FW dip However flukes can enter the eye where they then die due to exposure to the FW dip. If this what you are dealing with then the FW dip was the right move to make as it kills them instantly where as the Praziquantel does the same over time. During that time the flukes can damage the eye permanently due to movement.

I think what you have done so far is all in line with the best options you have. Repeated FW dips are tough on any fish but at the same time if there is one fish that deserves an Emmy award for best "I'm busy dying" act its the blue tang. Good luck going forward and keep updates coming.

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are a few things to consider here. To start I agree that the images point to flukes on the eye which is fairly common. Normally a FW dip for 5min will see the flukes turn white and fall off.

What concerns me is that normally skin flukes on the exterior of the eye cannot be seen with the human eye when they are alive on smallish fish as they are completely translucent. In your images the flukes are visible before the FW dip However flukes can enter the eye where they then die due to exposure to the FW dip. If this what you are dealing with then the FW dip was the right move to make as it kills them instantly where as the Praziquantel does the same over time. During that time the flukes can damage the eye permanently due to movement.

I think what you have done so far is all in line with the best options you have. Repeated FW dips are tough on any fish but at the same time if there is one fish that deserves an Emmy award for best "I'm busy dying" act its the blue tang. Good luck going forward and keep updates coming.

FW dips are not a cure but rather a method for temporary relief as most flukes will not dislodge in freshwater. Flukes can as in pics be seen with the naked eye opposed to the skin. Prazi paralyzes this parasite based on exposure time and is the choice of treatment

 

[mzlskink]

unfortunately he had passed away last night in treatment, my tail spot blenny also does scratching but no visible flukes on him

 

[mzlskink]

There are a few things to consider here. To start I agree that the images point to flukes on the eye which is fairly common. Normally a FW dip for 5min will see the flukes turn white and fall off.

What concerns me is that normally skin flukes on the exterior of the eye cannot be seen with the human eye when they are alive on smallish fish as they are completely translucent. In your images the flukes are visible before the FW dip However flukes can enter the eye where they then die due to exposure to the FW dip. If this what you are dealing with then the FW dip was the right move to make as it kills them instantly where as the Praziquantel does the same over time. During that time the flukes can damage the eye permanently due to movement.

I think what you have done so far is all in line with the best options you have. Repeated FW dips are tough on any fish but at the same time if there is one fish that deserves an Emmy award for best "I'm busy dying" act its the blue tang. Good luck going forward and keep updates coming.

I believe the white is on the outside of eye, can see little bumps

 

[Daz_1978]

unfortunately he had passed away last night in treatment, my tail spot blenny also does scratching but no visible flukes on him

Sorry to hear that about the Tang.

 

[Duane family]

unfortunately he had passed away last night in treatment, my tail spot blenny also does scratching but no visible flukes on him

Although this is sad news, it must be noted that you can learn allot from this experience.

1. Identification of a problem before it becomes life threatening for the fish
2. Prevention is better than cure, buy this I mean that its always going to be best to quarantine your livestock before adding them into the community as the fish which go through the LFS channels will always arrive with issues or develop issues while at the stores holding tanks. The Blue tang is infact a very hardy fish and would have behaved fairly normally even with the flukes present, right up until the last.

I would guess that the fish was severely infected with flukes from the gills to skin and lastly the eyes. Regular skin flukes are common on fish all the time and they are able to tolerate this for extended periods. This is different to something like brooknella which degrades the fish quickly.

 

[mzlskink]

Although this is sad news, it must be noted that you can learn allot from this experience.

1. Identification of a problem before it becomes life threatening for the fish
2. Prevention is better than cure, buy this I mean that its always going to be best to quarantine your livestock before adding them into the community as the fish which go through the LFS channels will always arrive with issues or develop issues while at the stores holding tanks. The Blue tang is infact a very hardy fish and would have behaved fairly normally even with the flukes present, right up until the last.

I would guess that the fish was severely infected with flukes from the gills to skin and lastly the eyes. Regular skin flukes are common on fish all the time and they are able to tolerate this for extended periods. This is different to something like brooknella which degrades the fish quickly.

I think other fish in my tanks maybe affected but symptoms are not severe.

tail spot blenny seems to scratch himself once in a while on the sand but not visible white patchs are on him (unlike the tang which is very obvious)

I added prazipro to DT but I did not think it helped, should I try again? Or if the issue is not bad, just let it be and hopefully fish will heal themselves in the end

 

[Duane family]

I think other fish in my tanks maybe affected but symptoms are not severe.

tail spot blenny seems to scratch himself once in a while on the sand but not visible white patchs are on him (unlike the tang which is very obvious)

I added prazipro to DT but I did not think it helped, should I try again? Or if the issue is not bad, just let it be and hopefully fish will heal themselves in the end

Don't expect results immediately
What amount of Prazipro did you add and what is the water volume ?

The praziquantel in Prazipro will begin attacking the parasite and it takes up to 7 days for the first dose to impact on the adult flukes who would have reproduced and layed eggs. The second dose then hits the eggs which have hatched. Sometimes a 3rd dose is required if there were more eggs which somehow made it through the process. The challenge is that your systems bacteria will consume the Prazipro and for this reason it will reduce in potency each day. This consumption of the Prazipro is variable as some tanks have 5 x the bacterial population of others and this is how a 3rd dose is sometimes required.
Remember that each dose needs to run for 8 days. You will only really see results near the end of the first 8 day period. Often in the first 8 day period fish who have sever fluke infestation will behave and look even worse, as the parasite feel the attack of the antibiotic it becomes real agitated and of course the fish will respond to this as well.

Confirm you have the skimmer off or lid open and there is no activated charcoal or any other absorption media in the tank ? If so this will simply pull the antibiotic out of the water and make it essentially useless.

 

[mzlskink]

Don't expect results immediately
What amount of Prazipro did you add and what is the water volume ?

The praziquantel in Prazipro will begin attacking the parasite and it takes up to 7 days for the first dose to impact on the adult flukes who would have reproduced and layed eggs. The second dose then hits the eggs which have hatched. Sometimes a 3rd dose is required if there were more eggs which somehow made it through the process. The challenge is that your systems bacteria will consume the Prazipro and for this reason it will reduce in potency each day. This consumption of the Prazipro is variable as some tanks have 5 x the bacterial population of others and this is how a 3rd dose is sometimes required.
Remember that each dose needs to run for 8 days. You will only really see results near the end of the first 8 day period. Often in the first 8 day period fish who have sever fluke infestation will behave and look even worse, as the parasite feel the attack of the antibiotic it becomes real agitated and of course the fish will respond to this as well.

Confirm you have the skimmer off or lid open and there is no activated charcoal or any other absorption media in the tank ? If so this will simply pull the antibiotic out of the water and make it essentially useless.

Ah I was too focused on results, it was only 4 days and I did something drastic since I did not see results

Is copper filter and polyfilter okay to stay? I can take out carbon and try again

 

[Duane family]

Ah I was too focused on results, it was only 4 days and I did something drastic since I did not see results

Is copper filter and polyfilter okay to stay? I can take out carbon and try again

Yip remove those
Its a sure thing that you now have significantly less than a recommended dosage amount. At the required dosage amount this equates to 2.5mg/Ltr. The question is how to proceed from this state.
There are two options
1. Do a significant water change of around 30% then dose the correct Prazipro amount and start over. There is a small risk of overdosing as you will for sure have a little of the previous Prazipro still in the system. The question is how much is still in the system.
2. Wait for another 3 days then start over with the recommended dosage.

Overdosing on Prazipro is not easy, its fairly tolerable and a slight over dosage will only result in a bacterial boom and cloudy water. But obviously the amount of available oxygen in the system is going to be significantly reduced in this case. I would always suggest leaving the skimmer running with the lid off and a good quality airstone in the display while you are using antibiotics in the water column.

 

[mzlskink]

Yip remove those
Its a sure thing that you now have significantly less than a recommended dosage amount. At the required dosage amount this equates to 2.5mg/Ltr. The question is how to proceed from this state.
There are two options
1. Do a significant water change of around 30% then dose the correct Prazipro amount and start over. There is a small risk of overdosing as you will for sure have a little of the previous Prazipro still in the system. The question is how much is still in the system.
2. Wait for another 3 days then start over with the recommended dosage.

Overdosing on Prazipro is not easy, its fairly tolerable and a slight over dosage will only result in a bacterial boom and cloudy water. But obviously the amount of available oxygen in the system is going to be significantly reduced in this case. I would always suggest leaving the skimmer running with the lid off and a good quality airstone in the display while you are using antibiotics in the water column.

I caught my tail spot blenny today and gave him a freshwater bath, I checked so hard against white and black background I did not see any bugs/worms - I am not sure why he is scratching here and there but he is generally fine. I could just observe?

 

[Duane family]

I caught my tail spot blenny today and gave him a freshwater bath, I checked so hard against white and black background I did not see any bugs/worms - I am not sure why he is scratching here and there but he is generally fine. I could just observe?

Yes you could but if there is a gill fluke problem you would be eating into available treatment time.

Look for the fish swimming to the surface at times and gasping for air at the surface. If you see this you need to act fast and at this time it's possible that a FW dip is not going to be tolerated well by the fish.

I would still suggest that you continue with the non standard prazipro period and then start a standard prazipro period flowed by a second prazipro period.

The FW dip will only provide temporary relief.
I have also had cases where I've FW dipped fish with nothing revealed in the dipped water but there in fact was flukes involved (verified later) I have no explanation for this but it's happened.
I have not dealt with many blennies (less than 50) but I can recall a few cases where these fish had gill flukes on arrival.