Sayonora Radion!

[rtparty]

Only 35.. That means I started when you were 5. I would never go back to MH bulbs. You may be old enough to remember when TVs looked like they were carved out of a block of wood. Lol. Even though they may still work today would you rather have a 4k big screen or that? That's how I look at modern lighting but as I like to say whatever helps you sleep at night. They still work fine but they have their own faults as well. My biggest challenge was trying not to boil everything in my tank. Lol

Absolutely terrible analogy. Did the halides show your tank in black and white 144p? And now your LEDs show 4k HDR10+? That's the only way your analogy makes sense

 

[RedoubtReef]

Buy a used Gen3 pro if that's what you were looking to upgrade to.

nope, it's a dead-end fixture. I did consider it though.

 

[RedoubtReef]

Take the 40% discount, sell for near full price. Easy money

nope, not in the budget.

 

[rtparty]

I mean, it’s a little misleading to mention that LEDs degrade after however many years, but then fail to mention that halides will degrade after 9-12 months (after claiming, in a cost benefit analysis that you change them every 18-24 months). It’s not an even handed, unbiased look at the costs and benefits of each type of lighting. I also think mentioning the hearsay profit margins on 15 year old LED fixtures is, at best, irrelevant.

I do agree with you that LEDs helped usher in the age of the designer coral, but it’s also social media, the name game, and the mainstreaming of the hobby (which can just as easily be attributed to the advent of the biocube and AiOs). It’s hype culture in general, it’s trade shows like Aquashella, it’s vendors like TSA, there’s a confluence of a lot of factors that have made the hobby what it is today, LEDs are just a small part of it.

Most halides lose 5-7% of their initial PAR around 6 months. But then between months 6-24 they only lose 10-15% of their initial PAR.

Most people talk about LEDs like the only reason to replace them is they outright die. Yet, that same principle doesn't apply to T5s or halides. LEDs performance and spectrum degrades (enough that you could warrant replacement) and Tullio has shown this to be around year 4 for the good LEDs. Neptune found it to be around year 5 that full panels needed to be replaced. Which is right in line with other lighting technology. I'll explain.

When T5s came to market we were all told how they would last years. 36 months was thrown around by quite a few. Magically that numbered dropped to 12 months and then even down to 6 for some manufacturers. Real testing shows 18 months is the sweet spot.

LEDs come out and we're told we will never have to replace our lighting again. The tank will fail before the LEDs die. This was marketed all over the place. "13.7 years, 12.3 years, 30 years at 4 hours a day...blah blah blah"

Now? Real world numbers show 5-7 years for good stuff assuming the original owner even stays in the hobby long enough to run them that long.

 

[RedoubtReef]

Complaining about 40% discount...wow. #entitlement

yeah, I made no claim of being 'owed' anything. I even said I appreciated the offer in another post.

 

[RedoubtReef]

There is a group of us that talk about this very thing. LEDs themselves may last 30.3 years or whatever ridiculous claim manufacturers use. The electronics running them won't. Then take into account that Tullio over at ReefBrite has already talked about and shown that LEDs degrade around year 4. 5-7 years is normal for LEDs. It's why I won't drop $800-1000 per fixture on them. (Although I've spent well over $10k testing 95% of them. I sell quick to make some money back.)

Replacing my halide bulbs is $55 a bulb every 18-24 months. Ballast? $200 for a "reef" ballast or half that for the same thing but no fish picture slapped on the box. These easily last 5 years. Reflectors? Mounted 12" off the water with a glass shield equals never needs replacing.

If you really look back at the hobby as a whole there is a clear line in the sand when it started getting a little screwy. It's when LEDs came out and companies realized there were massive profits to be made. Perfect example is when we were told PFO/Solaris had to sell 4 halide fixtures for the same profit as one LED fixture. Which way do you think companies will pivot with those margins at play?

Coral vendors realized blue LEDs mask an otherwise basic coral and prices started rising. Look at how much they Photoshop things these days and claim it's because cameras can't pick up the blue properly.

Yep, I'm the grumpy old dude (if 35 is actually old) telling everyone how great the glory days were and to get off my lawn. But the hobby was better back then. It wasn't all about profits and filling up a "display" tank with $1000 frags as fast you could to get that like and follow.

Okay, rant over. Hands are cold and I'm going to go put them under my halides to warm up.

you think you're grumpy at 35, just wait till your 50 there whippersnapper

 

[rtparty]

you think you're grumpy at 35, just wait till your 50 there whippersnapper

It's an inside joke (probably just with myself at this point...;Hilarious)

I tell people I still run halides and hate blue tanks. I'm the old guy yelling at everyone to get off my lawn when they find that out.

I'm stuck in the old days with wooden carved TVs (see above)

 

[RedoubtReef]

It's an inside joke (probably just with myself at this point...;Hilarious)

I tell people I still run halides and hate blue tanks. I'm the old guy yelling at everyone to get off my lawn when they find that out.

I'm stuck in the old days with wooden carved TVs (see above)

Used to love that shimmer on the halides. I'm half tempted to look at a t5/halide combo. When I was a kid, we had a wooden Mitusbishi big screen projection TV. That thing went 25+ years before it gave out.

 

[snorklr]

i absolutely hate manufacturers that dont supply replacement parts...our landfills are full of stuff that could still be functional...but its a fact of life i've always had to deal with as i've been an auto mechanic for about 50 years...try to find parts to restore a 70 year old car someday...but at least in my field there are stashes of parts here and there from old stock and independent sources that see a need and reproduce certain things...as well as people who specialize in repairing certain components....hopefully at some point (if there isnt one already) there will be a "radion guy" out there who will do the repairs and upgrades the factory will no longer support...had my gen 2 apart to replace the fan last year and believe me theres a heck of a lot less stuff in there than there is in a tv that costs the same as a new radion...finally retired the 15 yr old samsung DLP tv a couple years ago when it would have cost over 400 in parts and i wasnt positive it would cure it...but at least i had the option...

 

[RedoubtReef]

i absolutely hate manufacturers that dont supply replacement parts...our landfills are full of stuff that could still be functional...but its a fact of life i've always had to deal with as i've been an auto mechanic for about 50 years...try to find parts to restore a 70 year old car someday...but at least in my field there are stashes of parts here and there from old stock and independent sources that see a need and reproduce certain things...as well as people who specialize in repairing certain components....hopefully at some point (if there isnt one already) there will be a "radion guy" out there who will do the repairs and upgrades the factory will no longer support...had my gen 2 apart to replace the fan last year and believe me theres a heck of a lot less stuff in there than there is in a tv that costs the same as a new radion...

Agreed. I have a feeling Ecotech would step in a squash anyone who tried to create aftermarket pucks. Won't sell any Gen6s with someone keeping your old light running. I could be wrong though. Would be great to see a company step in and fill this need.

 

[SunnyX]

There is a group of us that talk about this very thing. LEDs themselves may last 30.3 years or whatever ridiculous claim manufacturers use. The electronics running them won't. Then take into account that Tullio over at ReefBrite has already talked about and shown that LEDs degrade around year 4. 5-7 years is normal for LEDs. It's why I won't drop $800-1000 per fixture on them. (Although I've spent well over $10k testing 95% of them. I sell quick to make some money back.)

Replacing my halide bulbs is $55 a bulb every 18-24 months. Ballast? $200 for a "reef" ballast or half that for the same thing but no fish picture slapped on the box. These easily last 5 years. Reflectors? Mounted 12" off the water with a glass shield equals never needs replacing.

If you really look back at the hobby as a whole there is a clear line in the sand when it started getting a little screwy. It's when LEDs came out and companies realized there were massive profits to be made. Perfect example is when we were told PFO/Solaris had to sell 4 halide fixtures for the same profit as one LED fixture. Which way do you think companies will pivot with those margins at play?

Coral vendors realized blue LEDs mask an otherwise basic coral and prices started rising. Look at how much they Photoshop things these days and claim it's because cameras can't pick up the blue properly.

Yep, I'm the grumpy old dude (if 35 is actually old) telling everyone how great the glory days were and to get off my lawn. But the hobby was better back then. It wasn't all about profits and filling up a "display" tank with $1000 frags as fast you could to get that like and follow.

Okay, rant over. Hands are cold and I'm going to go put them under my halides to warm up.

You know, I share very similar sentiments. I have been reefing for 25+ years and have MANY MH/T5 fixtures, reflectors ballasts and new bulbs that are simply collecting dust in storage. I thought about employing them almost a couple years back when I jumped back into the hobby, but curiosity got the best of me and I went with the Radion G5's.

Are they better than MH/T5? No, they are not. When it comes to lighting, spectrum and growth I would place them on just about equal footing, with T5's taking an edge with growth. Ease of use and maintenance is where the Radions shine. I like that they're easy to clean, ramp up/down, and adjust to my personal preferences. The slim form factor is also great when you need the reef display to take up as little space as possible.

I currently have a new Waterbox 6025 in storage that should be up and running in the next few weeks. I thought long and hard about what lighting I would use and ultimately decided to add a couple more XR30 G5's to add to the two XR15 G5's I already have. The deciding factor was that I did not want to have a canopy over the tank nor did I want to deal with the heat generated by a couple MH's. Had the tank been placed in-wall it would have been a no brainer to use the MH's in Lumenarc III's.

I agree with your opinions on the current state of the hobby. The coral craze has gotten a bit out of hand. Nowadays, I don't chase corals. At one point, I had just about every desirable coral and you know what, they were no more different or special than the OG's that you find for $10 a frag.

The one trend that blew my mind was the use of only dry rock to start up a reef. People wonder why they have issues and are dealing with Dino's, al of which are likely due to the lack of biodiversity in the system.

But hey, don't fret. The glory days may be gone but quite a few of us OG salties are jumping back in. We're going to herald in a new golden age of reefing. We'll show these whippersnappers a thing or two!

-Sonny

 

[Captain Redbeard]

It's an inside joke (probably just with myself at this point...;Hilarious)

I tell people I still run halides and hate blue tanks. I'm the old guy yelling at everyone to get off my lawn when they find that out.

I'm stuck in the old days with wooden carved TVs (see above)

Youre not alone. Im 32 and feel similar. I am grumpy in general though. And the blue on the tanks today literally makes me want to vomit.

 

[rtparty]

You know, I share very similar sentiments. I have been reefing for 25+ years and have MANY MH/T5 fixtures, reflectors ballasts and new bulbs that are simply collecting dust in storage. I thought about employing them almost a couple years back when I jumped back into the hobby, but curiosity got the best of me and I went with the Radion G5's.

Are they better than MH/T5? No, they are not. When it comes to lighting, spectrum and growth I would place them on just about equal footing, with T5's taking an edge with growth. Ease of use and maintenance is where the Radions shine. I like that they're easy to clean, ramp up/down, and adjust to my personal preferences. The slim form factor is also great when you need the reef display to take up as little space as possible.

I currently have a new Waterbox 6025 in storage that should be up and running in the next few weeks. I thought long and hard about what lighting I would use and ultimately decided to add a couple more XR30 G5's to add to the two XR15 G5's I already have. The deciding factor was that I did not want to have a canopy over the tank nor did I want to deal with the heat generated by a couple MH's. Had the tank been placed in-wall it would have been a no brainer to use the MH's in Lumenarc III's.

I agree with your opinions on the current state of the hobby. The coral craze has gotten a bit out of hand. Nowadays, I don't chase corals. At one point, I had just about every desirable coral and you know what, they were no more different or special than the OG's that you find for $10 a frag.

The one trend that blew my mind was the use of only dry rock to start up a reef. People wonder why they have issues and are dealing with Dino's, al of which are likely due to the lack of biodiversity in the system.

But hey, don't fret. The glory days may be gone but quite a few of us OG salties are jumping back in. We're going to herald in a new golden age of reefing. We'll show these whippersnappers a thing or two!

-Sonny

Mr Sonny himself back in action!

I have followed your tanks since I basically started the hobby and got into the forums. Most here may not know but your old tank on RC was absolutely killer. It was the very reason I started vodka/MB7 dosing back then.