School me on LEDs for SPS!

[C. Eymann]

I admittedly don't have much experience or knowledge of LEDs what's out there?whats anticipated to be released soon? what models are really the best bang for your buck? are diffusers worth it ? Proven setting programs for both AI and Radions ?

I'm possibly considering them + T5 on my future build, however, I am also possibly picking up a part time job at an amazing local reef shop so I am trying to educate myself more about current lighting trends and methods. I have read a few articles and have been skimming through Danas Lighting section Any other good trusted literature out there? Opinions? insight? information? experiences?

I'd appreciate it!

 

[Jvesche20]

I used blackboxes for a while then upgraded to kessil a360we plus a t5 hybrid setup. Gotta say the corals are growing much faster with these lights. I didnt wanna go with spending $800 on a set of lights so I went with this route instead. I did the t5 lights because there is too much shading with the single kessil light over a 2ft x 2ft area. If you turn just a led light on you will see what I'm talking about if you have large sps colonies. The problem is when sps get very large, lets take acros for example when they start to branch if you have 1 led light then when it grows usually what can or will happen is the middle will not get enough light so it will start to bleach and the whole colony will die. If you add t5 like I did it gets rid of this issue and provides lights to everything and everywhere.

Does this help at all?

 

[C. Eymann]

Yes definitely helped,

I knew shading can be an issue, but that's only with single chip/point of lights like Kessils right?
Radions generally dont have that problem because of its puck configuration and lenses?

What programs are all the LED only stick heads on their radions? or AIs?
percentages if each channel?

I know Ecotechs and AI have some off the shelf "programs" you can upload? what are people liking the most for coloration/growth for SPS? what about mixed reefs?

 

[jda]

This depends on a few things... there are very few super high end SPS tanks that use LED alone... a few, but not many. If you are smart and pay attention to the details, you will soon see that nothing will look the same as it does now... better or worse depends on the person, but it will be different... so nobody can really help you here but you. Many of the people who went LED alone now have T5s... and a good majority have the T5s doing the heavy lifting.

Of the 25, or so, local and national people that I trade acropora with, none of them use LED to do the heavy lifting. If you want to say that this is a confirmation bias amongst our group, then that is hard to argue... but nobody would argue that these tanks are amazing.

In the end, most use a custom program to supplement their T5s or other lights and do not use much of a predefined spectrum... mostly blue for illumination since they get the rest of the spectrum from the T5s.

Any puck based light will shadow more - Kessil, AI, EcoTech, etc. The panel lights like Photon, PacificSun, Atlantik all have less shadows, but more issues with light blending (disco ball that some people love and some people hate).

Best bang for your buck are the nice, US warranty Chinese units like Photon V2. If somebody made me use LED, it would be Orphek Atlantik V4. AI and EcoTech would be way down the list with Kessil coming in near the bottom.

 

[Montiman]

I would say there are several things to consider when using LEDs for SPS

1. Spectrum
Both coverage and Blending of spectrum
2. Coverage
More diffused and multi directional light is better
3. Par
Almost a non issue though I still see people trying to use far to much or far too little light.

 

[C. Eymann]

This depends on a few things... there are very few super high end SPS tanks that use LED alone... a few, but not many. If you are smart and pay attention to the details, you will soon see that nothing will look the same as it does now... better or worse depends on the person, but it will be different... so nobody can really help you here but you. Many of the people who went LED alone now have T5s... and a good majority have the T5s doing the heavy lifting.

Of the 25, or so, local and national people that I trade acropora with, none of them use LED to do the heavy lifting. If you want to say that this is a confirmation bias amongst our group, then that is hard to argue... but nobody would argue that these tanks are amazing.

In the end, most use a custom program to supplement their T5s or other lights and do not use much of a predefined spectrum... mostly blue for illumination since they get the rest of the spectrum from the T5s.

Any puck based light will shadow more - Kessil, AI, EcoTech, etc. The panel lights like Photon, PacificSun, Atlantik all have less shadows, but more issues with light blending (disco ball that some people love and some people hate).

Best bang for your buck are the nice, US warranty Chinese units like Photon V2. If somebody made me use LED, it would be Orphek Atlantik V4. AI and EcoTech would be way down the list with Kessil coming in near the bottom.

Thank you very much for writing that out, like yourself, I too am a proponent of using halides, I have used T5s and even had 2x 33g prop tanks lit with VHOs back in the day. LEDs I never really researched too much because I always dismissed them as being inferior to halides, which they are IMO but I am not trying to start that debate, I really appreciate you writing that out, learned quite a few things!

 

[MERKEY]

If you're looking for a brand I would suggest radion.

I just went through a similar scenario and ended up with the xr30 pros. I will be adding T5 to the system down the road when things get growing and I can afford more hahah

 

[C. Eymann]

Any ATI T5 hybrid fixture users wanna chime in as well ? I have been eyeing those too. I love the growth and color T5s offer, but tanks look static, I need that glitter in my life! so the ATI hybrids are really appealing.

 

[MERKEY]

Ya like this one, eventually something to the sort.

 

[SeaDweller]

I’m using LEDs exclusively and have toyed with going back to T5, but I don’t want to because 1) I’m seeing great results 2) more money.

I’m running 4 Reef Breeders Photon V2+ and I think the key is having many units to cover everything. My tank is a standard 240 and I began with 2 units, but felt I needed more coverage so I ended up getting two more. The thing I dislike about LEDs is the ability to constantly tweak the settings. It’s not set n forget easy like T5 or MH. There’s too much customization that one can do.

I think my tank looks great for being an LED only system, but I attribute it to great water quality, being experienced in the hobby, and having more than enough light. I think people fail to realize they need a substantial amount of whites to help with PAR and spectrum. Some guys run really low white values (I did too) but I saw better results with more whites/full spectrum. I run my blues and violets at 90% and whites, reds, greens at 50% and the PAR is phenomenal. I also have them hung 13-14” off the water line so I have even more spread and no disco balling.

Personally, I don’t see the need to switch back anymore or to add T5, but I think the best is to have all three types of lighting to cover EVERYTHING.

 

[CivicS14]

I ran all LED for years. On my reboot after a move, I ran 6x rapidled onyx over my redsea p500 and solid growth. All LEDs and successful SPS tanks these days are very common. Most tanks in out local club in Atlanta and reef stores are all predominantly lit by LEDs.

Picture below is from a year’s worth of growth, all from frags of 1-2”. I attribute my success to stable parameters more than anything.

 

[CivicS14]

I forgot to mention, I recently switched to a different LED that is more the puck style lighting vs the diodes spread across the entire unit like the onyx, reefbreeders and orpheks, and I get a lot of shadowing that I had to add some t5s. I only switched because my onyx was almost 5 years old and I wanted something with some warm whites. I felt it was missing out of older led units.

So, if you do LEDs and go with the puck style lighting in AIs and Radions, expect some serious shadowing.

 

[Acrofiend]

If you’re going sps go t5 and never look back. I don’t mind leds but you’ll need to run a lot of them to get the same coverage.

 

[Dugless]

I really like my ATI hybrid fixture. You can’t go wrong with T5s, and the supplemental LEDs give you the additional blue/violet punch as needed. It is a very clean setup too.

I researched LEDs but if you want really good coverage you have to employ a lot of units, and even then you’ll have more shadows than any other option. They’re really no more efficient. The bulb replacement argument is the biggest advantage and that doesn’t really pay off for many years. I feel like the progress of LEDs has really slowed down in the last few years. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I love my hydra 52 HD’s but my tank is small, so I can mount them really high, 16”, to eliminate the shadowing issue. I still get really good par, but this causes a ton of spillage. @SeaDweller ‘s photon v2’s have produced the fastest growth, insane actually, I’ve seen from led only. Those are what I would buy if I had to replace my lights or start a new build.

 

[C. Eymann]

Thank you so much for all the great information!

 

[C. Eymann]

I ran all LED for years. On my reboot after a move, I ran 6x rapidled onyx over my redsea p500 and solid growth. All LEDs and successful SPS tanks these days are very common. Most tanks in out local club in Atlanta and reef stores are all predominantly lit by LEDs.

Picture below is from a year’s worth of growth, all from frags of 1-2”. I attribute my success to stable parameters more than anything.

That's gorgeous!

 

[C. Eymann]

I’m using LEDs exclusively and have toyed with going back to T5, but I don’t want to because 1) I’m seeing great results 2) more money.

I’m running 4 Reef Breeders Photon V2+ and I think the key is having many units to cover everything. My tank is a standard 240 and I began with 2 units, but felt I needed more coverage so I ended up getting two more. The thing I dislike about LEDs is the ability to constantly tweak the settings. It’s not set n forget easy like T5 or MH. There’s too much customization that one can do.

I think my tank looks great for being an LED only system, but I attribute it to great water quality, being experienced in the hobby, and having more than enough light. I think people fail to realize they need a substantial amount of whites to help with PAR and spectrum. Some guys run really low white values (I did too) but I saw better results with more whites/full spectrum. I run my blues and violets at 90% and whites, reds, greens at 50% and the PAR is phenomenal. I also have them hung 13-14” off the water line so I have even more spread and no disco balling.

Personally, I don’t see the need to switch back anymore or to add T5, but I think the best is to have all three types of lighting to cover EVERYTHING.

Great information ! I need to check out these other fixtures that are a little less in the spotlight, like reef breeders and rapidleds, I knew Orphek made some dope lights because that's what a lot of the wholesalers used on their holding raceways/ grow out vats.

Thanks again, and I agree about water quality/params being huge success as well, Sally Joe of garf was growing fairly colorful acropora under 3-4 40w T12 over a 55gallon! granted they were like 6" from the surface ,
Still though reefkeeping is very much water keeping.

I really like my ATI hybrid fixture. You can’t go wrong with T5s, and the supplemental LEDs give you the additional blue/violet punch as needed. It is a very clean setup too.

I researched LEDs but if you want really good coverage you have to employ a lot of units, and even then you’ll have more shadows than any other option. They’re really no more efficient. The bulb replacement argument is the biggest advantage and that doesn’t really pay off for many years. I feel like the progress of LEDs has really slowed down in the last few years. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

Hey,
Thanks for answering my call to ATI hybrid owners ! It really is appealing to me, your setup
looks great! very clean! Its obviously giving you great results too. I had a 6 bulb ati fixture over my 58 for a while I was doing Zeovit back in the day and really liked it but without my beloved glitter lines it just felt flat. Do you have control over individual channels on the LEDs ? or just intensity? Kelvin temperature? are the LEDs strong enough to really overpower the T-5 and give the "dancing" glitter line effect I like?
Thanks for letting me pick your brain a bit!

 

[SeaDweller]

I love my hydra 52 HD’s but my tank is small, so I can mount them really high, 16”, to eliminate the shadowing issue. I still get really good par, but this causes a ton of spillage. @SeaDweller ‘s photon v2’s have produced the fastest growth, insane actually, I’ve seen from led only. Those are what I would buy if I had to replace my lights or start a new build.

December marks 1 year for some frags, but February is when all got transferred in, I’ll update the thread soon enough and we will see how insanely fast they’re growing under these lights and with actual PAR data, thanks to you!

 

[jda]

I should mention that some of the best LED only lit tanks use their panels at/near 100% on all channels for a lot of the day. Therman, Dr, Joshi and a few more. There are some vendors that do it too, but since I truly believe that people wanting to be like a vendor causes more issues than help since the typical hobbyist in peril looking for help will only pick and choose pieces instead of going all-in, I am not naming names.