Scratching my head???

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

it’s literally in the instructions that came with it lol .

That is certainly true. But it is still incorrect to do so.

There are many instances where reefers need to be smarter than the people supplying products to them, who mislead either through ignorance, or intent to mislead. Both are prevalent in this hobby.

In this case, I think it is mostly ignorance, or at least, lack of understanding by the manufacturer of what you actually intend to do with it.

 

[czoolander]

That is certainly true. But it is still incorrect to do so.

There are many instances where reefers need to be smarter than the people supplying products to them, who mislead either through ignorance, or intent to mislead. Both are prevalent in this hobby.

In this case, I think it is mostly ignorance, or at least, lack of understanding by the manufacturer of what you actually intend to do with it.

Well here lies the confusion then .

if I follow the instructions that say use rodi and calibrate to 0.00 and I measured 1.025

my lfs tests my water and reads 1.025

when I make my brightwell salt I measure the salt to add to mix exactly for 1.025

Why would I not be receiving an accurate reading?

I have a digital Hannah salinity checker calibrated with 35 ppt also reads 1.025

that is tested at 4 separate sources with the same results . I don’t think salinity is off regardless of me using rodi to calibrate my refractometer

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well here lies the confusion then .

if I follow the instructions that say use rodi and calibrate to 0.00 and I measured 1.025

my lfs tests my water and reads 1.025

when I make my brightwell salt I measure the salt to add to mix exactly for 1.025

Why would I not be receiving an accurate reading?

I have a digital Hannah salinity checker calibrated with 35 ppt also reads 1.025

that is tested at 4 separate sources with the same results . I don’t think salinity is off regardless of me using rodi to calibrate my refractometer

I never claimed your measurement was incorrect, just the rationale for using RO/di just because the seller recommends it.

Maybe you have a properly made true seawater refractometer, or an improperly made brine refractometer, or maybe all the other measures are a bit off too.

Have you tried measuring calcium on your new salt water made to sg = 1.025?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What salt mix are you using? Sg = 1.025 implies a salinity of 33.1 ppt, so one would expect calcium much lower than 509 ppm with most mixes (except maybe old Coralife)

 

[Miami Reef]

I’d suggest an ICP test. It’s fool proof and almost nobody can question the validity of it.

Being open minded is important. I’d suggest finding 1 mentor with a tank you are proud of and sticking with them. I think it will be much more helpful since I’m kind of getting a “defensive” vibe from this thread. Good luck.

 

[czoolander]

What salt mix are you using? Sg = 1.025 implies a salinity of 33.1 ppt, so one would expect calcium much lower than 509 ppm with most mixes (except maybe old Coralife)

I’m just producing a batch of rodi today … it takes awhile. I’m measuring exactly 5 gallons each fill . To be sure I’m weighing the 5 gallons to confirm correct. I then pour it into my 30 gallon brute .
Once I have exactly 30 gallons. I will measure the salt exactly levelled in my cup and also weighed to confirm each cup .

once my salt is mixed overnight I will test all peramiters in my bucket and see if it matches what my bright we’ll salt bucket says it should be

Am I missing anything?

 

[czoolander]

I’d suggest an ICP test. It’s fool proof and almost nobody can question the validity of it.

Being open minded is important. I’d suggest finding 1 mentor with a tank you are proud of and sticking with them. I think it will be much more helpful since I’m kind of getting a “defensive” vibe from this thread. Good luck.

I’d love to find that person. I actually made that exact post a few months back calling myself a padawan or noob or rookie . Looking for a Jedi or mentor or expert. And I got rude responses no help .

of course I’m defensive lol I don’t take anything I’ll give it right back . That’s life your the hammer or your the nail . The shark or the minnow. Which would you rather be ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m just producing a batch of rodi today … it takes awhile. I’m measuring exactly 5 gallons each fill . To be sure I’m weighing the 5 gallons to confirm correct. I then pour it into my 30 gallon brute .
Once I have exactly 30 gallons. I will measure the salt exactly levelled in my cup and also weighed to confirm each cup .

once my salt is mixed overnight I will test all peramiters in my bucket and see if it matches what my bright we’ll salt bucket says it should be

Am I missing anything?

Which salt and how do you decide how much weight to use?

 

[czoolander]

Which salt and how do you decide how much weight to use?

Brightwell neo marine

it says 7 cups for 15 gallons. So I will double that for my 30 gallon brute can .

134.5 grams per gallon

so 30x 134.5 should be my salt weight
correct? 8.896 lbs

 

[homer1475]

That’s life your the hammer or your the nail . The shark or the minnow. Which would you rather be ?

That stance does not sit well on a forum full of people from all over the world, and all walks of life.

I was once told a long time ago......

You get more bees with honey, then vinegar.

 

[czoolander]

That stance does not sit well on a forum full of people from all over the world, and all walks of life.

I was once told a long time ago......

You get more bees with honey, then vinegar.

I’m ignoring posts like this now they literally are no help and not contributing anything but thanks for your opinion

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Brightwell neo marine

it says 7 cups for 15 gallons. So I will double that for my 30 gallon brute can .

134.5 grams per gallon

so 30x 134.5 should be my salt weight
correct? 8.896 lbs

Brightwell makes that claim, but they have a poor track record of chemical understanding of their own products.

if we assume the sg is 1.025, and also accept this other claim about that mix from their web site:

“For what it’s worth, the final formulation provides all major, minor, and trace elements at concentrations at their respective average natural seawater concentrations. We strive to reproduce this formulation with our production process.”

Then the calcium level at sg 1.025 should be about 398 ppm (the calcium concentration in natural seawater at that sg).

Lets see what you get.

 

[czoolander]

Brightwell makes that claim, but they have a poor track record of chemical understanding of their own products.

if we assume the sg is 1.025, and also accept this other claim about that mix from their web site:

“For what it’s worth, the final formulation provides all major, minor, and trace elements at concentrations at their respective average natural seawater concentrations. We strive to reproduce this formulation with our production process.”

Then the calcium level at sg 1.025 should be about 398 ppm (the calcium concentration in natural seawater at that sg).

Lets see what you get.

I’ll post my results Monday night . I’ll probably be finished mixing rodi 30 gallons late tonight it’s a slow process as you know lol

so 24 hours mixing would be late Sunday night . So I’ll probably just test Monday afternoon after I get home from work.

Maybe I’ll order 2 - ICP tests and send one in for my display tank and one for my newly produced 30 gallons batch

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ll post my results Monday night . I’ll probably be finished mixing rodi 30 gallons late tonight it’s a slow process as you know lol

so 24 hours mixing would be late Sunday night . So I’ll probably just test Monday afternoon after I get home from work.

Maybe I’ll order 2 - ICP tests and send one in for my display tank and one for my newly produced 30 gallons batch

Sounds great.

 

[maroun.c]

I'd check, double or even triple.check the following when having issues:
Salinity no harm recalibrating with saltwater solution to make sure.
Alk, ph salinity temp swings past 6 months as I feel after a swing corals can still show signs till weeks or months after before they recover or are lost
Rodi is it 0 tds ? Worth sending a freshwater sample to icp check for contaminants.
Changing ur ro prefilters and checking tds past Ro membrane and past DI Nd making sure this is OK.
There was mention of alk swing from 7-12 that can shock the system for months.
Alk swing of 1 in 3 days to me is a big swing even if it is in the right direction.

Coraline die off is a sign something happened but need to pinpoint it (coraline goes white when exposed to air like in a water change so that might not be an issue.
Icp can help
Checking magnets in pumps or glass scrappers for one that might have gone bad and exposes rusting metal to ur water.
How do u lose ur corals ? Do they rtn, stn , stn from the base dry off ...?
Where do u get ur frags from ? Healthy frags ? Fresh cuts ? Established frags before purchasing ? Do u dip them before adding to tank ? Might be simple shipping stress or stress from a rough dip that's killing them and not ur tank.
How long did u have the frags before they were lost ? Any chance or signs for any pests ?
A larger water change with 0 tds water might be a good way to offset any parameter that drifted or any contaminant that went in the tank.
Reducing light intensity and dosing when corals aren't doing well as I believe intense light can stress them also corals when struggling won't consume like usual which causes ur levels to raise. Pics of ur setup and corals would help.

 

[czoolander]

I'd check, double or even triple.check the following when having issues:
Salinity no harm recalibrating with saltwater solution to make sure.
Alk, ph salinity temp swings past 6 months as I feel after a swing corals can still show signs till weeks or months after before they recover or are lost
Rodi is it 0 tds ? Worth sending a freshwater sample to icp check for contaminants.
Changing ur ro prefilters and checking tds past Ro membrane and past DI Nd making sure this is OK.
There was mention of alk swing from 7-12 that can shock the system for months.
Alk swing of 1 in 3 days to me is a big swing even if it is in the right direction.

Coraline die off is a sign something happened but need to pinpoint it (coraline goes white when exposed to air like in a water change so that might not be an issue.
Icp can help
Checking magnets in pumps or glass scrappers for one that might have gone bad and exposes rusting metal to ur water.
How do u lose ur corals ? Do they rtn, stn , stn from the base dry off ...?
Where do u get ur frags from ? Healthy frags ? Fresh cuts ? Established frags before purchasing ? Do u dip them before adding to tank ? Might be simple shipping stress or stress from a rough dip that's killing them and not ur tank.
How long did u have the frags before they were lost ? Any chance or signs for any pests ?
A larger water change with 0 tds water might be a good way to offset any parameter that drifted or any contaminant that went in the tank.
Reducing light intensity and dosing when corals aren't doing well as I believe intense light can stress them also corals when struggling won't consume like usual which causes ur levels to raise. Pics of ur setup and corals would help.

Wow there is a lot in there I’ll try to answer them all I might miss a few haha
A. Salinity was checked 3 separate sources at my house and also checked by two other local reefers all got 1.025
B. I haven’t had a major alk swing in over 4 months the last being where I went from 8-11 I’ll check my notes to confirm. My alk consumes slowly.1 every few days so I test once a week and dose Red Sea according to do minor adjustments lately
C. TDS is definitely zero . I switch out my filters and membranes frequently. I was running 1 tds for a month or one water change during that time I was told 1 tds is not a major concern other then that it’s always zero
D. Coral die off . I guess I should have been more specific. The rocks are still covered in coralline. Lots on the back wall with spots of white so maybe like you say from water lowered from water changes exposing to air ? Most of the die off is in my sump where I don’t always turn the light on anymore cause I gave up on trying chaeto 0/2 on attempts even though I always had nitrates for it to consume lol
E. No magnets in the tank my map 40 magnets are external unless the pump must have some inside to hold on to the outside as well ? I don’t know how these pumps work to be honest lol
F.I’m not advanced enough to know what rtn stn are ? To me corals are healthy dieying or dead . They were healthy before I removed them from the tank glued them to a rock and placed back higher up in the tank
g. I wouldn’t know if they were fresh cut or healthy they were online from Ontario under wysisyg . They looked good online and looked the same in person?
h. I do acclimate the corals to lower lights 50% over 15 days increasing to normal lighting
I. I just made 30 gallons new water last night and I’m testing all the peramiters in it Monday night to give results to @Randy Holmes-Farley so we can see if the bucket peramiters match what I’m measuring in my water changes.

I think I answered them all I probably missed a few haha

 

[maroun.c]

Indeed too many possible causes to eliminate hence to many factors to consider. its never a clear cut why we loose corals or why a tank isn't thriving.
When purchasing frags try to always get frags that have grown over the plug which is a tell.sign there have healed from the cut and are doing well. If there's any reefer or store close by to buy from that's always better than shipping, that's not to say shipping frags is the cause but that's one possible factor.
Pumps have an internal magnet that makes the impeller rotate.
By corals die off I meant frags you have lost and not the coraline. An icp will help pinpoint the cause as a drop in strontium can cause that.
Good luck finding the cause and solving it I know it can be frustrating.

 

[czoolander]

Indeed too many possible causes to eliminate hence to many factors to consider. its never a clear cut why we loose corals or why a tank isn't thriving.
When purchasing frags try to always get frags that have grown over the plug which is a tell.sign there have healed from the cut and are doing well. If there's any reefer or store close by to buy from that's always better than shipping, that's not to say shipping frags is the cause but that's one possible factor.
Pumps have an internal magnet that makes the impeller rotate.
By corals die off I meant frags you have lost and not the coraline. An icp will help pinpoint the cause as a drop in strontium can cause that.
Good luck finding the cause and solving it I know it can be frustrating.

So here were my two alkalinity mistakes/ spikes when I dosed baking soda

Jan 2, 2022 I was at 7.4 I dosed incorrect I tested Jan 9 and I was 12.2 . Jan 16 10.0 and Jan 24 back to 8.9 a week later 9.0 and stable around 8.7 until …..

march 14 2022 . Tested 7.4 I dosed slightly better but still a spike lol to 9.9 on March 22 I let it slowly lower until April 5 at 8.8 and since then it’s been fairly stable

April 5 - June 19. 9.2 my highest and 8.3 my lowest. Most tests are in the 8.4 to 8.7 range . The 9.2 was my alk still coming down from the 9.9 spike in March

 

[IslandLifeReef]

So here were my two alkalinity mistakes/ spikes when I dosed baking soda

Jan 2, 2022 I was at 7.4 I dosed incorrect I tested Jan 9 and I was 12.2 . Jan 16 10.0 and Jan 24 back to 8.9 a week later 9.0 and stable around 8.7 until …..

march 14 2022 . Tested 7.4 I dosed slightly better but still a spike lol to 9.9 on March 22 I let it slowly lower until April 5 at 8.8 and since then it’s been fairly stable

April 5 - June 19. 9.2 my highest and 8.3 my lowest. Most tests are in the 8.4 to 8.7 range . The 9.2 was my alk still coming down from the 9.9 spike in March

Ok, I missed the ALK spike in your Friday post. It makes it really difficult to trouble shoot a problem for someone when the information comes in piece meal. ALK spikes like the ones you mentioned could be the stressors that killed your corals. SPS like stability. Rapid changes up and down can cause problems.

Is the time period mentioned above the same time period that you have lost corals?

Have you lost them at other times?

Earlier you stated that it was the Coral Beauty that was the problem. Are you keeping the Angelfish and staying away from SPS, or are you getting rid of the CB? Once they get a taste for coral, it is hard to get them to stop.

Again, it is hard to tell what the problem is when we have to look for information in multiple posts.

My suggestion is to develop and daily, weekly, and monthly routine. Run that for a couple of months, and when everything is stable, maybe try another coral. Other than that, without knowing more about your tank and possible seeing some pictures, anyones guess is as good as another.

 

[czoolander]

Ok, I missed the ALK spike in your Friday post. It makes it really difficult to trouble shoot a problem for someone when the information comes in piece meal. ALK spikes like the ones you mentioned could be the stressors that killed your corals. SPS like stability. Rapid changes up and down can cause problems.

Is the time period mentioned above the same time period that you have lost corals?

Have you lost them at other times?

Earlier you stated that it was the Coral Beauty that was the problem. Are you keeping the Angelfish and staying away from SPS, or are you getting rid of the CB? Once they get a taste for coral, it is hard to get them to stop.

Again, it is hard to tell what the problem is when we have to look for information in multiple posts.

My suggestion is to develop and daily, weekly, and monthly routine. Run that for a couple of months, and when everything is stable, maybe try another coral. Other than that, without knowing more about your tank and possible seeing some pictures, anyones guess is as good as another.

Yeah the coral losses were after the spikes I just got the two sps a month ago . They were fine on the sandbed for a week . I probably killed them hanfling and gluing . I’ll be keeping my CB . I’m a fish first corals second reefer . Although I would like it all . Emperor angel is the dream fish .
I test almost every week on Sunday and monthly water changes but life does not always allow for exact schedule so I improvise.
I’ll try to attach a few pictures.