Seachem Overhyped or Good compared to others

[merkmerk73]

Complete and udder BS. It has been shown on a chemistry level to do squat to ammonia.

It's a placebo effect. They claim it does, so you think it does.

What it actually does is convert ammonia to ammonium, then after a while it converts back to ammonia where your biofilter will process it.

It does not NEUTRALIZE ammonia as it claims it does. It simple converts it to a non lethal form, buying you time for your biological filtration to catch up.

Does ammonium show up on a test kit as ammonia?

Because my confirmation was simply testing one day and then testing again 12 hr later

Anyways your post contradicts itself

It’s not a placebo effect if it’s detoxifying ammonia

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Does ammonium show up on a test kit as ammonia?

Because my confirmation was simply testing one day and then testing again 12 hr later

Anyways your post contradicts itself

It’s not a placebo effect if it’s detoxifying ammonia

Most test kits detect both forms of ammonia and give data as total ammonia.

Test kits do not show a drop when using Seachem Prime.

 

[Spare time]

Does ammonium show up on a test kit as ammonia?

Because my confirmation was simply testing one day and then testing again 12 hr later

Anyways your post contradicts itself

It’s not a placebo effect if it’s detoxifying ammonia

Hobby test kits measure total ammonia (ammonia and ammonium), and 12 hours is enough time for bacteria to start working on it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Seachem matrix carbon is nice, and their biomedia is duriable. I also like aquavitro fuel's contents, despite its misleading trace element label. Aquavitro skimmers look neat but I have no experience with them. I don't like their dosing instructions for some of their products, and I feel that they are really bad at explaining how their products work. Take purigen for example. It says it removes nitrogenous waste. It does not remove ammonia, and the other two options for nitrogenous waste are urea and uric acid. Fish don't produce uric acid, and urea is the only other option. However, Seachem could have just stated this from the get go. This also has implications as to if seachem matrix is of much use in freshwater, where many fish produce very little urea (compared to marine fish that produce large amounts for osmoregulation, though there are freshwater exceptions i.e. teleost fish from my understanding)

It certainly does not remove urea. It would be very hard to design a urea binder for seawater.

What I expect they mean by nitrogenous waste are things like amino acids, and perhaps many organics that carry a positive charge (which are always amines in the organic).

But, of course, Seachem rarely tries to inform, just to sound impressive in ways that are not readily understood by experts.

Some of their ingredient claims are quite extraordinary, using words to describe chemicals that are found nowhere else on the internet, except in Seachem ingredients. lol

 

[jft]

I will be looking elsewhere NOT really sure about seachem. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Spare time]

I will be looking elsewhere NOT really sure about seachem. Thanks for the responses.

What products are you thinking of getting? I could probably list some other brands or products on this thread if you'd like

 

[MnFish1]

How did you confirm that?

There are very extensive studies in the chem forum showing it does not reduce ammonia in any test we tried, including those stated by Seachem to be appropriate.

These are the studies showing it does not detoxfy ammonia:

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

I respectfully disagree with part of this. The experiment does not address whether prime detoxifies ammonia (since there were no living things tested in the experiment). Instead, it shows that there is no measurable change in NH3 levels using the methods in their experiment (which were quite rigorous). I also replicated their results using similar test kits.

There are many (admittedly anecdotal) cases/posts showing that there are some detoxifying properties in Prime (and other products) - perhaps it's a placebo effect IDK. I recently used a similar product during an emergency with dramatic nearly immediate positive effect (in a freshwater tank - the thread is below. I hesitate to post it due to the lack of levels). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...-though-its-freshwater.1009781/#post-11778784

As to the original question - I am not a big fan of Seachem for all of the reasons already discussed

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I respectfully disagree with part of this. The experiment does not address whether prime detoxifies ammonia (since there were no living things tested in the experiment). Instead, it shows that there is no measurable change in NH3 levels using the methods in their experiment (which were quite rigorous). I also replicated their results using similar test kits.

There are many (admittedly anecdotal) cases/posts showing that there are some detoxifying properties in Prime (and other products) - perhaps it's a placebo effect IDK. I recently used a similar product during an emergency with dramatic nearly immediate positive effect (in a freshwater tank - the thread is below. I hesitate to post it due to the lack of levels). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...-though-its-freshwater.1009781/#post-11778784

As to the original question - I am not a big fan of Seachem for all of the reasons already discussed

OK, you can hypothesize that it detoxifies in a wholly unknown way that is different than Seachem claims, and does not cause the test changes Seachem says.

There is no evidence it works and lots of evidence it does not.

 

[jft]

What products are you thinking of getting? I could probably list some other brands or products on this thread if you'd like

Chemical filter media and dechlorinators. Thanks

 

[00W]

I used seachem products extensively for many years. They seemed to be a step up from the generic.
I stopped altogether about 4 years ago.
I don't use and or have any of their products on hand. They just didn't do anything great that I could see and once I delved into corals, all those products were so confusing to use I just gave up.
Most of them seemed like colored water in different bottles.
The stuff is made in Georgia but everything was listed in milliliters-I'm just not that bright.
I've read a lot of Randy's articles on seachem and I believe what Randy has to say more than seachem which is disappointing since I feel as though I wasted a lot of money over the years.
That's my 5 cents.

 

[MnFish1]

OK, you can hypothesize that it detoxifies in a wholly unknown way that is different than Seachem claims, and does not cause the test changes Seachem says.

There is no evidence it works and lots of evidence it does not.

We have no real disagreement. I didn't really hypothesize anything - I only said that I used a product which clearly saved the lives of hundreds of $ worth of discus - which I ascribe to nitrite poisoning - and that no experiments have shown on R2R (except the amphipod experiment - which was nothing like a reef tank) that prime does not detoxify ammonia. There are also no studies that show that it does detoxify ammonia except anecdote?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Chemical filter media and dechlorinators. Thanks

On the dechlorinator front, any brand is likely fine if it is not chloramine.

 

[shwareefer]

I like the matrix carbon for it's format - no idea if it functions better or worse than others but I assume you can't f carbon up that much. I was using Reef Advantage Magnesium but after discussing with Randy, determined it's mostly Sodium Chloride so I'm done with that. I was usuing Fuel for about a year (because I had a big bottle) but just like Acropower, AB+, and Coralamino I didn't find it did anything meaningful in my tank.

 

[frydaddy]

If prime doesn’t detoxify ammonia, why do all the fish qt forums still list it as something to keep on hand for that purpose? Is there something else that does work? Or are water changes the best or only option for reducing ammonia if necessary when qting?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If prime doesn’t detoxify ammonia, why do all the fish qt forums still list it as something to keep on hand for that purpose? Is there something else that does work? Or are water changes the best or only option for reducing ammonia if necessary when qting?

Because, IMO, they have been misled by Seachem over many years, and ammonia may not as rapidly kill fish as many people believe.

Many years ago my wife and I went to a Florida attraction called Monkey Jungle. There was a monkey there near the exit that apparently threw a fit as each person passed by on their way out. Apparently, he was convinced he scared the tourists away.

People who save fish from ammonia toxicity may be viewing the experience as the monkey did. Those who lose fish may just assume that there was too much ammonia, the fish were too sick, or some such thing. Few reefers would think to actually challenge the dogma that the Prime works as claimed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I understand this sounds like heresy to many people, but the simple fact is that some of the big name companies, such as Seachem/Aquavitro and Brightwell, have literally impossible product claims that they continue to mislead customers with.

It’s a sad fact of the aquarium hobby that folks simply should not trust companies until they earn that trust.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, folks have been challenging the effect of prime on ammonia for years. I recall some folks saying years ago that Seachem threatened them with libel for making such claims, and yet Seachem has never provided ANY evidence that it works as claimed, nor provided any mechanism of action.

Folks should ask themselves why.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I personally like seachem but agree with Randy that some stuff as the same with Api can be misleading

 

[Spare time]

Chemical filter media and dechlorinators. Thanks

For dechlorination, prime, amquel or anything similar should be fine. I would not use tap water if that is your plan.

Their phosphate media phosguard leaches aluminum so that is something not typically recommended on here. A pinch of gfo mixed with bituminous or rox carbon (or seachem matrix carbon) would be a better choice. As I mentioned, matrix carbon is good. Matrix biomedia and de-nitrate are fine but biomedia is not really something you need in most tanks. Cuprisorb from seachem is fine if you need to remove heavy metals.

 

[Fritz05]

To say something positive about Seachem: Kanaplex with Focus worked well for me and I like their Tidal HOB-filters (admittedly built by Sicce).