Seachem PhosGuard

ReefCaptain · Jan 9, 2021

Looking for some insight/input into my recent situation. Have a QT 40 gallon tank setup for about 2 months now, had 2 clowns and 2 YT for the last month and they were doing great. I decided to add PhosGuard to my HOB filter to help keep phosphates down. I purchased the PhosGuard and media bags separately. I added the amount that was directed on the bottle and placed it in the media bag and into the HOB filter it went after a rinse. Shortly after I noticed small white particles in the bottom of the tank. The next day, I noticed my YT and clowns breathing heavily and barely moving. I added an air stone to help with the oxygen but it didn’t help, one of my clowns and both YT died within 12 hours.
Is it possible that some residue from the PhosGuard leaked into the tank and poisoned the fish?
Water parameters were spot on and just to be sure, I had them checked at my lfs as well.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

stanlalee · Jan 9, 2021

Not sure about phosguard other than it's an aluminum based binder. Why are you concerned with phosphates in a QT tank?

Idoc · Jan 9, 2021

I've used Phosguard before and didn't notice anything like that residue or fish problems. Was it on a high flow area that could have caused it to aggressively scrape together to cause residue?

I used to just toss a small bag... less than the directions instructed to use... in to the sump in a higher flow area, but it wasn't tumbling on itself.

fishguy242 · Jan 9, 2021

hi,i have used since early 90's ,sumps,reactors,hang on backs,never rinse,clouds water ,no ill affects..jme

sorry to hear about fish

was there a lot of algae in tank?

ReefCaptain · Jan 9, 2021

With the PhosGuard I was trying to keep phosphates and silicates down to keep diatoms in check. The other thing that comes to mind is that when I placed the PhosGuard in the HOB, I also did a water change and dosed some stability as well. I also added back in some ceramic rings to the filter that were out of the tank for a few days (picture attached). Not sure if that is what was in the tank. I also attached a photo of the white “debris” that is in the tank.

Greg P · Jan 9, 2021

Possibly some bacterial die-off on the rings caused an ammonia spike

ReefCaptain · Jan 9, 2021

The last clown died as well... now with no fish I have to start over. My DT is not yet set up and now I have to start my QT tank again. With the unknown killer that got to my fish, what would be the fastest way to get my QT up again? Would I have to start all over, scrubbing the tank and equipment clean and going through the entire cycle again or would you recommend another way?

fishguy242 · Jan 9, 2021

sorry to say ,but that is prob the best route not knowing what caused die off

Hermie · Feb 28, 2021

Dude it was probably aluminum particles from the phosguard that got stuck in their gills... Always be sure to very, very thoroughly rinse PhosGuard before using.

Mppp · Feb 28, 2021

I have used phosguard on occasion to bring down phosphates in reef tank will no ill effects on fish by putting them in a relatively low flow area of sump, but did rinse in a bucket of RO water to remove as much of dust as possible. (Fish Inhabitants include pair of clowns, coral beauty, mandarin). Sorry to hear about your fish, but I don't see the need for phosguard in DT next time.

Reef. · Feb 28, 2021

Sounds like you used the wrong size bags, phosguard needs very fine bags and a good rinse.

With a QT I would try and keep it as simple as possible, a water change will probably do the job most of the time, with the fish under stress already in a qt adding to that with phosguard etc can’t be great for them.

Mr. Mojo Rising · Feb 28, 2021

I use that once in a while, it does a good job. But I only leave it for 24 hours then change it or remove it. It never bothers my fish

Sam816 · Feb 28, 2021

I don't think phosguard is the issue. Those small particles are actually smaller phosguard granules that escaped the bag. Not harmful.
I think your fish were either sick or you have stray electricity in your tank. Have you checked if heater is clean(nothing rusting/breaking/melting?)

Hermie · Feb 28, 2021

Sam816 said:
I don't think phosguard is the issue. Those small particles are actually smaller phosguard granules that escaped the bag. Not harmful.
I think your fish were either sick or you have stray electricity in your tank. Have you checked if heater is clean(nothing rusting/breaking/melting?)

Aluminum particles are harmful to your lungs... You can even witness the particles woft into the air whenever first rinsing a bag, it's a fine aluminum dust.

https://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf

Reef. · Feb 28, 2021

NotASpammerDude said:
Aluminum particles are harmful to your lungs... You can even witness the particles woft into the air whenever first rinsing a bag, it's a fine aluminum dust.

https://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf

Yeah I’m changing to Rowa, not sure if it’s any better but it seems to get better reviews for the corals of the fish and it is meant to work better too.

Sam816 · Feb 28, 2021

NotASpammerDude said:
Aluminum particles are harmful to your lungs... You can even witness the particles woft into the air whenever first rinsing a bag, it's a fine aluminum dust.

https://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf

Any metal if ingested is dangerous mate. unless all of OP's fish swallowed the granules i don't think it's the issue. seachem would have stopped selling this product if there were even 1 in a million case of it causing fish death.
it is another issue if the aluminum reacted to the medicine in the tank or if HOB ground it to a fine powder that got inside the fish. it's still a long shot.

tehmadreefer · Feb 28, 2021

NotASpammerDude said:
Aluminum particles are harmful to your lungs... You can even witness the particles woft into the air whenever first rinsing a bag, it's a fine aluminum dust.

https://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf

lol ya the key word being lings, not gills.... the phosguard did not kill the fish, it’s been around for like forever...

Hermie · Feb 28, 2021

Sam816 said:
Any metal if ingested is dangerous mate. unless all of OP's fish swallowed the granules i don't think it's the issue. seachem would have stopped selling this product if there were even 1 in a million case of it causing fish death.
it is another issue if the aluminum reacted to the medicine in the tank or if HOB ground it to a fine powder that got inside the fish. it's still a long shot.

Couple questions, do you use phosguard or another aluminum oxide product currently or recently?

If you have, how have you handled it safely?

Don't get me wrong. I have a 10" canister reactor filled with phosguard in my system right now. I use it all the time. But to say that aluminum oxide dust is benign (my word) is wrong IMO. It can literally irritate my lungs if I don't prepare it properly, with some ventilation and a respiratory mask.

Sam816 · Feb 28, 2021

I use phosguard in my sump(half the quantity suggested) in a mesh bag i bought on ebay. Seachem's bags are well suited for phosguard. i have to wrap the bag i bought over itself as granules can escape otherwise. I've been using it for last 6 months. almost finishing my 1st 2liter can.
I use phosbond + purigen in my phosban 550 reactor connected through manifold. I only use phosbond when i introduce a new fish as that's when i try different foods to find out what the new fish likes and try to fatten it up.
I do have white granules stock to my tank's back wall.

Brian_68 · Feb 28, 2021

NotASpammerDude said:
Aluminum particles are harmful to your lungs... You can even witness the particles woft into the air whenever first rinsing a bag, it's a fine aluminum dust.

https://www.nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2891.pdf