Secret to keeping nems? Please share!

[LesPoissons]

Hey all
my tank is a 220g, about 4 years old. For 2 years I had a big beautiful red BTA until a monster mitrax crab (not reef safe, as previously told) about 4" across tore it up one night. Since then it seems, I have struggled to keep nems in my tank. My parameters are Ph 8.1, Temp 79, Alk 8.5, Nitrates 12, Phos 0.05, Ca 430, MAg 1350. The tank hosts a variety of clowns, angles, anthias, a trigger, tangs, cardinals and firefish and a variety of corals- acroporas, montis, duncans, mushrooms, candycanes, stylophora etc. But the nems are not happy and I love having them. I have a rainbow that is doing well for now, but over the last year or so my long tentacles, rock flowers, and other btas have slowly disappeared. They dont die outright, they do fine, then hunker down for a couple days, and then move, and then I dont see them again. I may knockdown some rock work here or there and discover one (happened last week) but they are not thriving. Im renting a par meter from BRS next week to check the light settings and the parameters are as mentioned. There are 4 powerheads for flow as well as the 2 returns but Im also looking at upgrading them bc they are a mismatched collection. Other than that, I dont know what Im doing wrong, esp bc my red was so happy under the same conditions and lighting for so long. Is my alk to high or to low for nems? Is it the temp? Do the clownfish bother them to death?! Help, I need answers and your secrets!!!

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Hm that's tough, I assume the crab is gone? Have you checked for stray voltage?

 

[LesPoissons]

Oh yeah. Caught him the next night and took him to lfs. I haven’t checked for stray voltage- how would you do that? What are the “symptoms”’of stray voltage? (Would the fish or corals be having issues if that was a concern?)
It’s frustrating. I feel like things are where they should be as far as parameters lighting space and water quality are concerned- but I can’t seem to keep nems. I’ve never seen any other fish go after them (although my large angel did pick on my purple LTA until I reocated it). I have gotten them from live aquaria, divers den, my lfs, and another online store and again, some I had for years before this slow dwindling away so I don’t feel like I can blame it on poor quality nems. Can clowns irritate nems to death?

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Oh yeah. Caught him the next night and took him to lfs. I haven’t checked for stray voltage- how would you do that? What are the “symptoms”’of stray voltage? (Would the fish or corals be having issues if that was a concern?)
It’s frustrating. I feel like things are where they should be as far as parameters lighting space and water quality are concerned- but I can’t seem to keep nems. I’ve never seen any other fish go after them (although my large angel did pick on my purple LTA until I reocated it). I have gotten them from live aquaria, divers den, my lfs, and another online store and again, some I had for years before this slow dwindling away so I don’t feel like I can blame it on poor quality nems. Can clowns irritate nems to death?

You can check voltage with a voltmeter but that was just a guess. Ya clowns can definately irritate a small or unhealthy nem to death

 

[PicassoClown04]

Clowns can kill unhealthy or stressed nems for sure. I’d suggest trying to relocate the nems into an acclimation box so you can keep an eye on them and make sure they’re doing okay/getting better. I isolate my nem splits into a plastic disposable cup with melted holes in it. Mine usually start feeding in the cup around the 1 week mark but yours may take longer cause they sound quite unhappy. Do not feed the nems until they are sticky on a surface, fully displaying tentacles, and show no signs of illness such as a gaped mouth. Here’s a couple quick pics. Last pic is the wood burner I use to make the holes.

 

[LesPoissons]

Those are gorgeous!!! Maybe my clowns are doing it. I have 7 in a 220. The rainbow bta is currently okay and hosting the pink skunks who seem more gentle. the ocellaris trio had a green bta until a few weeks ago. It was beautiful and healthy, sticking well, eating well, and then just rapidly declined after the clowns took ownership. They were def agressive with it. I got them a green lta as a replacement, that one also looked great, I bought it on the rock from lfs so no foot damage, Eating in my tank etc. the clowns found it right away. Now it’s moved, I can barely see tentacles from the side of a rock structure. Maybe it is the clowns. (how do you deal with clowns that are overly enthusiastic with their host?!) but that doesn’t explain the smaller nems that seemed fine, stuck, ate well etc that that clowns had no interest in that still are disappearing.

 

[PicassoClown04]

Maybe the clowns were sleeping in the small ones at night? I’d suggest temporarily separating the clowns from the nems until they get healthier. Acclimation boxes are good, I use the cups to get the nems healthy then I think I’d try to introduce only one clown at a time. If you made a giant nem box like a couple gallons large then I’d put all the BTA’s in there, get them healthy, then introduce only one clown to see how the nems react. If that goes well I’d add all the clowns slowly over a period of a few days and if all the nems still look good I’d release the nems but hold the fish so the nems have time to find homes in the rock. After theyre all settled and looking good then I’d release the clowns. Don’t touch the one nem doing well with the skunks, all three of those should be left alone cause they’re doing well. Try feeding the tank heavier as well, the nems like to eat the particles out of the water. Best of luck to you!

 

[jtf74]

Those are gorgeous!!! Maybe my clowns are doing it. I have 7 in a 220. The rainbow bta is currently okay and hosting the pink skunks who seem more gentle. the ocellaris trio had a green bta until a few weeks ago. It was beautiful and healthy, sticking well, eating well, and then just rapidly declined after the clowns took ownership. They were def agressive with it. I got them a green lta as a replacement, that one also looked great, I bought it on the rock from lfs so no foot damage, Eating in my tank etc. the clowns found it right away. Now it’s moved, I can barely see tentacles from the side of a rock structure. Maybe it is the clowns. (how do you deal with clowns that are overly enthusiastic with their host?!) but that doesn’t explain the smaller nems that seemed fine, stuck, ate well etc that that clowns had no interest in that still are disappearing.

I've had the best luck with nems by not feeding anything going on four years now, just giving them good light. What lights are you running? I lost a couple back when I would feed regular chunks of shrimp. I think sometimes people mistakenly think these need to be fed more often than they really do. Digestion is slow and overly large chunks can sit too long inside them before its broken down. Too many clowns pestering I suppose could be a problem too.

 

[chizerbunoi]

Possible the angels nipped at it too much as well, since it nipped at your LTA? Did you catch that Mitrax crab? Once a culprit, it will always go back.

Also with that many clowns hosting an already declining BTA, it would/could stress the BTA further to die. Alternatively, it moved to a rock location where you can't see it. I have BTAs mounted to the bottom of my rock structures which is flat against another rock. It's weird, but they stretch out from all the way under there.

 

[LesPoissons]

No I got the crab out within 24 hours- the jerk. That’s the thing- the btas seem healthy and happy and sticky and eating when they go in. I guess I will put them in a box and see how they do with no clown interaction. Maybe I will get more at once instead of 1 at time and the clowns can spread out their enthusiasm. It’s really just the trio that seem the most aggressive with wanting to be hosted. The lights are viparspectra blackboxes but they had my rbta happy for years and the corals etc are happy. I got an ICP test and everything is good, my parameters are good, I have a par meter coming on Friday to check the lights again, I just boosted up the flow so I’m trying to track down the issues. I’ve never seen the angel go for anything other than that one purple lta that just irked him for some reason. he left the rock flowers bubble tips and the green lta alone. Frustrating. thank you all for helping me with this!!

 

[jtf74]

No I got the crab out within 24 hours- the jerk. That’s the thing- the btas seem healthy and happy and sticky and eating when they go in. I guess I will put them in a box and see how they do with no clown interaction. Maybe I will get more at once instead of 1 at time and the clowns can spread out their enthusiasm. It’s really just the trio that seem the most aggressive with wanting to be hosted. The lights are viparspectra blackboxes but they had my rbta happy for years and the corals etc are happy. I got an ICP test and everything is good, my parameters are good, I have a par meter coming on Friday to check the lights again, I just boosted up the flow so I’m trying to track down the issues. I’ve never seen the angel go for anything other than that one purple lta that just irked him for some reason. he left the rock flowers bubble tips and the green lta alone. Frustrating. thank you all for helping me with this!!

I use viparspectra LED as well- 300 Watts w/ blues for about 12 hours and white for about 8. Intensity at about 50% for each. Are you using similar wattage/ settings? Have you started dosing or adding anything recently? Also what's your salinity at?

 

[LesPoissons]

Your nems are beautiful!!! Mine are set at 50% blues and 5% whites for 12 hrs for blues- 11 hours for whites (they come on 30 min after blues and go off 30min before... best I could do for “ramping” lol). But mine are 165s set 8” off the water line Hence the par meter to check everything but again- my other bta was happy for years and my corals have good color and growth so I’m Making an assumption that it’s not the lighting. I’ll find out on Friday to be sure but nems are pretty adjustable IMO to lighting as long as it’s good enough for corals- nems usually adjust and do fine. :/

 

[proxy001]

I have good luck with nems , BTA or carpet over the years. Corals not so much. My phosphates and nitrates have always been on the high side (0.2/25 or more) and always had a clown fish bringing them food. Other than that they grab whatever floats when I feed cubes.

 

[Rjramos]

I never feed directly either,just whatever fish don’t eat and randomly falls in the tentacles. I would look into something that isn’t keeping your nems happy related to water quality,or parameters. I don’t feel that clowns damage them, only the nems shrivel away cause they don’t want to be bothered due to whatever is not allowing them To thrive.

This Ultra RBTA since November in a well and long established (2014) 29 biocube. It spilt a couple months ago.

 

[jtf74]

Your nems are beautiful!!! Mine are set at 50% blues and 5% whites for 12 hrs for blues- 11 hours for whites (they come on 30 min after blues and go off 30min before... best I could do for “ramping” lol). But mine are 165s set 8” off the water line Hence the par meter to check everything but again- my other bta was happy for years and my corals have good color and growth so I’m Making an assumption that it’s not the lighting. I’ll find out on Friday to be sure but nems are pretty adjustable IMO to lighting as long as it’s good enough for corals- nems usually adjust and do fine. :/

Sounds like you are getting enough light as you mentioned your other was happy, but I think you could go brighter, more watts and intensity over a 220. Please share the par results if you don't mind for the viparspectra as I'm curious about mine. Well I'm out of ideas here. Sounds like as someone else said there's something in the water quality you aren't monitoring or is not usually present that is causing this. Your parameters seem fine. I've never had clowns kill mine either, but not saying it couldn't happen. Didn't see your salinity. I keep mine at 1.026, have heard higher is better for nems. Its weird the way ocean creatures react sometimes. I have a new (not newly cycled, just new) setup and everything I moved over from my small tank is thriving including my bta's,ricordea, zoas, xenia, star polyp , except for the mushrooms for some weird reason. Parameters I check are the same as the original tank but they all have shriveled and disappeared and these are supposed to be the easy corals. There's no difference in temp, salinity, nitrates, ammonia, phosphates, calcium, and the live rocks came from their original tank, but there's something thats different that they don't like.

Maybe it is the angels or the trigger? What do you have?

 

[LesPoissons]

That’s what I thought so I did the ICP test thinking it would yield something I was missing but everything looked good so Idk! I’m rechecking the big 3- water light and flow- I’ll share par levels when i get the meter. Power heads getting cleaned tomorrow and then rechecking all my usual parameters.
For fish I have an emperor angel, flame angel, blue throat trigger, hippo tang, yellow tang, bristle tooth tang, Lyretail anthias pair, red and purple fire fish, a couple cardinals, 3 chromis,4 ocellaris,2 pink skunks, a maroon clown, a random orange skunk that lives in an overflow compartment, 2 mandarins. A royal gramma, some kind of basslet I forgot the name of, and a yellow fox face and a magnificent fox face. I may be forgetting some. I haven’t seen any of them bother any of the nems other than the angel just hated that purple lta

 

[mmw64]

Just a quick question, hope you don't mind. My new anemone attached at the top of my aquarium where it will out of the water when doing water changes. How long can it be out of the water or can it?

 

[jtf74]

That’s what I thought so I did the ICP test thinking it would yield something I was missing but everything looked good so Idk! I’m rechecking the big 3- water light and flow- I’ll share par levels when i get the meter. Power heads getting cleaned tomorrow and then rechecking all my usual parameters.
For fish I have an emperor angel, flame angel, blue throat trigger, hippo tang, yellow tang, bristle tooth tang, Lyretail anthias pair, red and purple fire fish, a couple cardinals, 3 chromis,4 ocellaris,2 pink skunks, a maroon clown, a random orange skunk that lives in an overflow compartment, 2 mandarins. A royal gramma, some kind of basslet I forgot the name of, and a yellow fox face and a magnificent fox face. I may be forgetting some. I haven’t seen any of them bother any of the nems other than the angel just hated that purple lta

Interesting. The maroon tolerates the other clowns huh? I would guess if it was fish you would see tentacle damage.
Well I'm at a loss too. Any chance of a contaminant and nothing new being dosed? What about your sand bed? Is it a deep bed? Any chance of sulfur pockets?

 

[LesPoissons]

The sand bed is about 2 inches, probably comes up to four in some places. I gravel vac it every two weeks with water changes, so the sand does get moved a bit. Plus the nassarius snails help with that. Think the ICP test would’ve picked up on it since I did it right after I had stirred up the tank but the other inverts are fine so I don’t think it’s that. As far as I know according to the ICP a test there’s no contaminants. The dosing pumps seem to be working fine since the parameters are steady.
The maroon was the last added and chosen to be smaller than all the other clowns right now so as he eventually outgrows them I’m hoping he will have his own territory and retain his place on the pecking order. It’s a risk but so was the emp angel and the 2 fox faces.

 

[LesPoissons]

Just a quick question, hope you don't mind. My new anemone attached at the top of my aquarium where it will out of the water when doing water changes. How long can it be out of the water or can it?

It should be fine. It may move by then or drop when the water level recedes but they can be out of water for a couple hours.