Seeking suggestions on a self-inflicted problem

Dom · Sep 28, 2017

Okay... so I am facing a problem which is self-created and I have no one but myself to blame.

Yesterday, I purchased a valentino puffer from the LFS. It is from the same store that I posted about the horrible water quality and complete absence of husbandry.

In preparation of the new guy and the need for QT, I set up a 5 gallon tank with a hang on filter, light and heater. There isn't any filtration media of any kind; the pump is strictly for circulation.

The water in the QT was mixed with salt to the same specs that I use in my display tank.

Then it occurred to me; new water = tank cycle.

So now, this little guy, who seems happy, is in a tank which has an ammonia close to 1 (Overnight!).

I'm a bit concerned the little guy won't survive the cycle.

I thought about acclimating him to the DT water and dumping him in, but I don't relish the idea of skipping the QT period.

So the goal is to help this guy along until the tank cycles.

There is a "fishy" smell coming from the QT. I'm guessing this is due to no filter media and elevated ammonia.

Some guidance please.

Thanks
Dom

BoomCorals · Sep 28, 2017

Water doesn't "cycle"

So whether you had used new water or water from your tank, the QT is still uncycled. The bacteria need something to "grow" on - rock, sponge, etc. You won't cycle this tank without something like that in it. Your only choices are water changes. Fish can tolerate mild levels of ammonia, keep a lower temp and PH, around 74F and 7.6ph max and that will help a lot on the ammonia. You could also use something like prime or amquel plus to help.

Dom · Sep 28, 2017

BoomCorals said:
Water doesn't "cycle" So whether you had used new water or water from your tank, the QT is still uncycled. The bacteria need something to "grow" on - rock, sponge, etc. You won't cycle this tank without something like that in it. Your only choices are water changes. Fish can tolerate mild levels of ammonia, keep a lower temp and PH, around 74F and 7.6ph max and that will help a lot on the ammonia. You could also use something like prime or amquel plus to help.

Yes... I plan on adding some live rock. I'm also going to move old filter media from the DT to the QT as that will already have colonized bacteria on it. Also, I will do water changes. The plan tho is to use old water from the DT in the QT and then new water into the DT.

saltyhog · Sep 28, 2017

Ammonia over night even in a small tank is a little surprising. Frequent water changes. You can use an ammonia detoxifier such as Amquel if there are no other meds in the water. Don't over feed, siphon any uneaten food out quickly.

What is your QT plan/protocol?

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 28, 2017

Umm. Water does cycle. The majority of the Bactria is in the rocks.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wow-ammonia-more-valuable-than-gold.322350/
Also D riddle references the process in his experiments with corals.
In the short term. Water changes and if you have a pice of live rock to sacrifice add it

CodyRVA · Sep 28, 2017

+1 to all. In addition, you may want to consider a larger QT tank, at least a 10G, preferably larger. This will help keep the ammonia from building, larger volume, but you'll likely need to rely heavily on water changes. It's kind of late now, but when I'm on the market for a new fish I always add a filter pad to my display sump to colonize bacteria for several weeks and then add it to my QT. If you add live rock to your QT I advise against returning it to your display. Not sure if you're using API for your ammonia test, but every API kit i've used for ammonia has always tested positive in some degree for ammonia.

BoomCorals · Sep 28, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Umm. Water does cycle. The majority of the Bactria is in the rocks.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wow-ammonia-more-valuable-than-gold.322350/
Also D riddle references the process in his experiments with corals.
In the short term. Water changes and if you have a pice of live rock to sacrifice add it

Right but as I understand it, a 5g or 10g QT tank won't have enough in the water to support the nitrification process for even a single fish, so it's not really applicable from a practical standpoint when fish are involved. And would really only confuse the issue.

keddre · Sep 28, 2017

Water changes and throw some LR from your display or sump in the HOB filter.

If you've quarantined everything, I wouldn't skip it for the puffer as your tank is probable sterile.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 28, 2017

BoomCorals said:
Right but as I understand it, a 5g or 10g QT tank won't have enough in the water to support the nitrification process for even a single fish, so it's not really applicable from a practical standpoint when fish are involved. And would really only confuse the issue.

Yea. Small tank. THAT we agree on.

In emergency , transfer, and observational QT "mature water" is what I've alwaysed used and I couple probably find the articles on it. But volume is def an issue.

Dom · Sep 28, 2017

UPDATE:

1. Moved 3 good size pieces of LR from DT to QT.

2. Moved filter media from DT to QT and installed new filter media to DT as it was due to be changed this Sunday.

3. Did a 10% water change on DT(also due Sunday) and saved the water.

4. Did a 20% water change on the QT and used DT water to refill.

He seems MUCH happier with the LR in the tank; he's exploring a lot. Wasn't interested in the 3 way PVC coupling I had in there.

BoomCorals · Sep 28, 2017

I would have only moved one rock

Dom · Sep 28, 2017

BoomCorals said:
I would have only moved one rock

Why? Is this a case where less is more?

I mean the size of your bacterial colony will only be as big as the load it feeds on. More bacteria than bio load just means some of the bacteria will die off.

More bio load than bacteria will cause the colony to grow, extra rock and filter media (sponge) will provide space in which to colonize.

BoomCorals · Sep 28, 2017

Dom said:
Why? Is this a case where less is more?

I mean the size of your bacterial colony will only be as big as the load it feeds on. More bacteria than bio load just means some of the bacteria will die off.

More bio load than bacteria will cause the colony to grow, extra rock and filter media (sponge) will provide space in which to colonize.

Point being that one will probably suffice and he only loses one if the fish has ich or something else etc. Its about losing 3 rocks vs 1.

Dom · Sep 28, 2017

BoomCorals said:
Point being that one will probably suffice and he only loses one if the fish has ich or something else etc. Its about losing 3 rocks vs 1.

Ah... hadn't looked at it that way.

ThunderGoose · Sep 30, 2017

I have a plastic "coral rock" from a big box pet store that I use instead of PVC. It can be cleaned with vinegar (or tossed) between QT inhabitants but it looks "natural" enough that the fish are much happier with it than with PVC. Plus it does have a textured surface to start a bacteria population (I seed and "feed" the QT before the fish arrive).

Glad to hear the puffer looks better in the new QT.