Setting the highest possible bar for the next algae control author, books or online request:

brandon429 · Jul 8, 2018

A thread.

Of cures...across tanks and invasions and variables, tied specifically in your work. Be forced to apply your tenets to the gauntlet of variables that are other people's homes/reefs

No safe zoning, the web presents a proofread and a form of anecdotal accountability that we should harness as the new bar for writing something. Works indeed might be fully -incomplete- without a web thread, live time, proofs generating each crispy new after picture. Live time feedback can validate or invalidate a claim in the most shocking ways, we are the reviewing peers en masse

Why has no author on this planet released a live action web thread paired alongside their book

Due to specific information changes i now feel that a web thread of a solid twenty pages of work is required as pretty much the total vetting material, and it's not peer reviewed studies or education that meets the July 2018 bar of excellence in multi platform proofs for algae control in an aquarium.

Why is it I cannot find any live action cure threads from book authors as we speak? Are peer reviews-as-final-say actually total accountability insulation? Could be too harsh a bar...what do you all think about web threads shaping new knowledge

What if by being required to have at least a twenty page currently running algae cure thread as a book or peer review author completely reshapes the type of information that guides our hobby and purchases?

Web threads are where everyone goes when the tank didn't follow written rule

o2manyfish · Jul 8, 2018

Your asking for instructions to control one of the most basic and earliest life forms on the planet. If you don't believe the world was created with a wave of the hand in 6/7 days, then the first sign of life was algae. Algae something that can start in fresh water, saltwater, brackish water, live without water and then come back to life in water.

You can take a brand new aquarium, put in a clean batch of salt water made with the most pure water you can source. And guess what... you are going to get algae.

And now you add the thousands (that may be a low count) of variables, that are different in every single aquarium - and you want to put together the defacto manual of how to cure algae problems...

Here is a specific example as to why this can't be done. A few years ago I added a new frag tank to my existing system. My system at that point was about 900 gallons. 400 inside, the rest outside. A 400g display tank in the house, an outdoor frag tank (150g) an outdoor refugium (240g). We added a new 180g frag tank outside to this system. All the same water. All the same filtration. The 180g started growing hair algae at an incredible rate. When I say incredible, after 10 days I could come outside every 48 hours and pull out enough hair algae to fill a 5g bucket.

This tank had no rock. It started with just water and some egg crate with montis. But by the second week, the hair algae was just growing on every single surface.

There was no hair algae in any of the other 4 aquariums (all connected by one return pump, all outside tanks flow from one to another) Fish and corals in the other tanks were thriving. But the hair algae in this single tank was growing like crazy.

After 6 weeks of the hair algae growing non-stop, it just stopped. One day I pulled and trashed a 5 gallon bucket worth, and the next day the tank was empty. And 3 days later the glass in the new tank was clear.

Now how, or why, would you treat a 180g crazy hair algae reactor, when there is 900 gallons of fish and corals that are algae free and doing great?

There may be a 100 different solutions people have discovered for curing "Their" algae issues. But how many of those are cures, and how many of those are just algae changing it's growth based on mother nature.

This hobby is pretty unique in that 2 people can do the exact same thing and get totally different results. There are so(or too) many variables. Within a day there are so many parameters that vary that we really have no control over.

Dave B

brandon429 · Jul 8, 2018

I have the threads for a given claim just not the book. We chose to test peroxide for example against other methods for algae control and logged eight years in a given thread x 3. That made me question how anyone can formulate an algae plan without consulting a thread; other methodologies may be untested claims (peroxide shouldn't exist for the hobby but powerfully does for example. Fills a gap peer reviewed works/ reef training materials, apparently omitted. What's the next peroxide)

that's a good outcome agreed for the tank above but my goal was for the teachers and sellers of information... causes and cures for algae issues are a big $ deal the hobby sure.

My position is about vetting claims, and myriad books on algae control made claims that we seem to have to alter, enhance and sometimes negate in web threads that fix invaded tanks.
That author could step into an algae affected system and guide the procedures into what they use... we can see how works after a pages.

brandon429 · Jul 8, 2018

Found myself wondering why authors on algae control don't run any live time threads, not any. What you posted above about algae indifference to basic ranging conditions is pretty new info for example (agreed) and if it leads into more direct action on targets by the keeper then that lines up with what I'm finding in purely web-based work, that what we do to prevent algae isn't the same as what we do when it shows up anyway

If someone would have told me that in 1999 my reefing and expenditures would have been positively altered.

Our results in peroxide threads are not all over the place, they are no-loss tank corrections/ corralled into roughly 75-85% efficacy (clean uninvaded after pics) in my biased opinion. I take that to mean any book author on algae control will be able to produce threads with ~75% or better results collected from those who are quicker to report failures over successes. The current standard is literally no online vetting.

brandon429 · Jul 18, 2018

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sizing-a-uv-for-reef-tank-any-truth-in-this.422827/page-2

Example above not algae, it’s the research paper claim that uv can kill ich out of a system.

We’ve all been told to devalue anecdotes and value published works. Works like in 1999 that said coral allelopathy prevents all small reefs from surviving.

Sounds great on paper. Really great

But not one thread exists for proof on uv as ich prevention across multiple tanks, because the basis of the research is theory and not actual works we can locate.

Patterns that will become evident: writer of the research claim has no cure threads, not one, for curing ich in a tank or eight, any type of a real works pattern

Threads are the new peer review

Of course the web has claims of uv, garlic and others seemingly making a tank free of ich or crypto

But tank transfer method, fallowing and quarantine had to show up, in threads, to attain repeatability and not one reef book I ever read had that. Ttm and qt have the highest repeatability for disease prevention of any current reefing model, ergo anyone wanting the best plan for crypto prevention needs to consult a thread not formal works and not UV

The purpose of my thread here over time w be to compare and contrast formal works vs anecdotal mass post threads and see which provides the most cutting edge science. Each has challenges: formal works are often not backed by work (proof) threads, and works threads are usually cluttered with distracting info, lots of patterns have to be sifted they’re not evident on page one of the thread

Subsea · Jul 18, 2018

@brandon429
I am with you on this one.

Laissez les bonne temps roulee,
Patrick

Subsea · Aug 2, 2018

@brandon429

Hydrogen peroxide is a perfect example of application over theory. Have you started a thread on its use? For me, it is the perfect oxidizer to clean coral of algae, including cynobacteria, micro inverts like: pods, micro stars, bristle worm ............... Dip coral for 10 minutes in 10% solution of 3% hydrogen peroxide.

I will do a case study on using hydrogen peroxide to remove fleshy algae from surfaces of desirable macro.
Halymenia dilatata is a gorgeous ornamental red macro that is often called Dragons Tongue. It will be the case study.

brandon429 · Aug 2, 2018

Wonderful yes agreed.

I've got a brand new thread on build/hold in the nuisance algae forum w release soon called

The psychology of reef tank invasions.

It's my opinion nobody has ever linked psychology ABOVE nutrient issues for discerning invasion etiology and then undoing the whole process in reef tanks (which is a matter of buy in and following ordered ops, not testing, per these threads below)

Reefers have been told to purposefully farm invasions in an uglies phase, so most tanks from rule followers (a psychology) are invaded at one point and then possibly uninvaded later, hopefully. we are literally designing most reef tank to be invaded throughout the life of the tank, by designing inaccessible rock scapes and by not killing invaders early on, when they could have

Reefers to this day are told that detritus stored up in a sandbed doesn't matter, see the sand rinse thread to see how that plays out after time and fish poo and vectored import of matted invaders like cyano and dino

these are traits of compliance, following ordered ops etc, I keep seeing thinking at the heart of my work threads, not complex biology, we use the same approach across invasions. Rule breakers, noncompliants fed up with losing tanks and with making reactions to ammonia readings that weren't real

did the work below, still, just a mode of thinking as Im a horrible chemist and merely a shade tree biologist.

Any sparse materials in reef training that we all cut our teeth on downplayed or flat out disadvised direct action against algae targets, as we weren't "removing the cause" each time, they claimed.

killing the algae is removing the major cause of algae, for the majority of tanks, this is meant to directly challenge the article writers I cut teeth on for not having proof threads, so now Ill have to make one to back up the zany claim.

Hesitation science, external locus of control reefing. Vs deliberate pre modeling and follow through, execution psychology, central locus of control reefing.

The new thread will be me taking on invaded tanks using the tenets of the sand rinse thread, the microbiology of cycling thread and my peroxide threads. We will condense those actions into a giant accountability thread, and I'll serve up my own medicine

glad you joined well in the notion.

The whole point of my new thread will be zero holdouts from the entrants, total buy in without hesitation to what we recommend, and it will fix tanks. I'll never ask for anyone's nutrients, as i intend to show being invaded is a psychology of passivity or an inaccessible tank, it's not an ID or test issue.

example thread of work #1
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/
2.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

#3
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

this one #3 is a big one, that isn't just a cycling thread, its a boundaries of what microbes permit thread, and hasn't that regulated EVERYTHING for us since the 90s?

(don't change too much water/instability you'll recycle)

(don't use peroxide, that's antimicrobial per the directions, you'll recycle)

(don't touch the sandbed, you'll recycle [this part was true heh])

our cycling thread shows just how much you can work, flip, spin and cycle a tank without testing.

without testing should be an easily tracked theme in all my threads due to being a poor chemist but still finding a way (a trait)

I cannot fathom how any ground on invasion remediation can be had without giant work threads, the only works cited available otherwise are non work threads, which aren't currently helping us much or back alley cures wouldn't be as volumous and after-pic'd

The confusing part is, Im actually not against old school methods that don't clean sandbeds, store waste forever, and win through an uglies phase with patience. Im for that, its the gold standard.

Until that's repeatable for 20 out of 20 beginning tanks, we'll need and be using a better way.

100% of the work in my work threads is undoing what the reef sages told them to do

this is all mental work, and sales/convincing on my part, I have to keep selling someone who already wants to be uninvaded on why they can now let go of the invasion, some of em fight tooth and nail.

I will NOT NOT NOT kill the six worms I cannot see, but know to be in my sandbed, even though they're not helping at all in my dinos invasion. <----psychology of distrust

the threadless cause tank invasions

and the threaded fix em.

Subsea · Aug 2, 2018

brandon429 said:
Wonderful yes agreed.

I've got a brand new thread on build/hold in the nuisance algae forum w release soon called

The psychology of reef tank invasions.

It's my opinion nobody has ever linked psychology ABOVE nutrient issues for discerning invasion etiology and then undoing the whole process in reef tanks (which is a matter of buy in and following ordered ops, not testing, per these threads below)

Reefers have been told to purposefully farm invasions in an uglies phase, so most tanks from rule followers (a psychology) are invaded at one point and then possibly uninvaded later, hopefully. Any sparse materials in reef training that we all cut our teeth on downplayed or flat out disadvised direct action against algae targets, as we weren't "removing the cause" each time, they claimed.

killing the algae is removing the major cause of algae, for the majority of tanks, this is meant to directly challenge the article writers I cut teeth on for not having proof threads, so now Ill have to make one to back up the zany claim.

Hesitation science, external locus of control reefing. Vs deliberate pre modeling and follow through, execution psychology, central locus of control reefing.

The new thread will be me taking on invaded tanks using the tenets of the sand rinse thread, the microbiology of cycling thread and my peroxide threads. We will condense those actions into a giant accountability thread, and I'll serve up my own medicine glad you joined well in the notion.

The whole point of my new thread will be zero holdouts from the entrants, total buy in without hesitation to what we recommend, and it will fix tanks. I'll never ask for anyone's nutrients, as i intend to show being invaded is a psychology of passivity or an inaccessible tank, it's not an ID or test issue.