Setup and Cost questions - Introduction as well! (New here)

[Crabbs]

Hello, I'm new here. Just have a few questions concerning cost and setup, what I might need. Last year in June I started some fresh water planted aquariums for Neocaridina shrimp and Nano fish of multiple varieties. They're all doing well and I'm enjoying them very much.. my problem is, every time I go to the LFS I leave with the overwhelming urge to start a saltwater. This leads to my questions.

Right now I'm running a 6 gallon long aquarium with co2. It has a canister filter and a finnex stingray light. I'm debating tearing it down and turning it into a saltwater tank. Links to see what I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/TechnToy-HW-...F8&qid=1518750546&sr=8-1&keywords=603b+filter

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NAFQ6RI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The aquarium measures 24 x 8 x 8. It's the Ultum 60L.

Basically, I'm just wondering if any of this stuff I have could be used with saltwater. If the filter is useful, please let me know what kind of media I could use in it. I'm really just wanting to do a live rock aquarium and have some crustaceans, harlequin shrimp, friendly crabs, etc. An anemone and clown fish might not be out of the question, but it's definitely not top of the list. Maybe a nano blenny, if there is such a thing. I had salt water aquariums growing up and I just remember getting live rock and finding all kinds of surprise critters that come with it. I'm trying to relive that I guess, heh. I have learned a ton about fresh water the passed year and love my shrimp and nano fish (Celestial pearl Danios, ESPECIALLY! Amazing little personalities) I feel like now I want the same, but in a saltwater setup.

Sorry if this is a little long winded, hope you guys can help me. Thanks.

(Side note: What I really like about my neocaridina / caridina shrimp is that they breed like crazy and are a very fulfilling critter to have. I'd also be interested to know of any similar "easy" to breed salt water critters may be.)

 

[Crabs McJones]

Hello, I'm new here. Just have a few questions concerning cost and setup, what I might need. Last year in June I started some fresh water planted aquariums for Neocaridina shrimp and Nano fish of multiple varieties. They're all doing well and I'm enjoying them very much.. my problem is, every time I go to the LFS I leave with the overwhelming urge to start a saltwater. This leads to my questions.

Right now I'm running a 6 gallon long aquarium with co2. It has a canister filter and a finnex stingray light. I'm debating tearing it down and turning it into a saltwater tank. Links to see what I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/TechnToy-HW-...F8&qid=1518750546&sr=8-1&keywords=603b+filter

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NAFQ6RI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The aquarium measures 24 x 8 x 8. It's the Ultum 60L.

Basically, I'm just wondering if any of this stuff I have could be used with saltwater. If the filter is useful, please let me know what kind of media I could use in it. I'm really just wanting to do a live rock aquarium and have some crustaceans, harlequin shrimp, friendly crabs, etc. An anemone and clown fish might not be out of the question, but it's definitely not top of the list. Maybe a nano blenny, if there is such a thing. I had salt water aquariums growing up and I just remember getting live rock and finding all kinds of surprise critters that come with it. I'm trying to relive that I guess, heh. I have learned a ton about fresh water the passed year and love my shrimp and nano fish (Celestial pearl Danios, ESPECIALLY! Amazing little personalities) I feel like now I want the same, but in a saltwater setup.

Sorry if this is a little long winded, hope you guys can help me. Thanks.

(Side note: What I really like about my neocaridina / caridina shrimp is that they breed like crazy and are a very fulfilling critter to have. I'd also be interested to know of any similar "easy" to breed salt water critters may be.)

Welcome to R2R! Owning a saltwater tank does not have to be expensove or hard. Many reefers have kept tanks with no fancy equipment or filtration other than live rock and a hang on back power filter with some filter floss. It's all about keeping up on consistent water changes. Others will chime in with more information that should get you headed in the right direction.
I would also strongly suggest giving this thread a read through
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

 

[Crabbs]

Welcome to R2R! Owning a saltwater tank does not have to be expensove or hard. Many reefers have kept tanks with no fancy equipment or filtration other than live rock and a hang on back power filter with some filter floss. It's all about keeping up on consistent water changes. Others will chime in with more information that should get you headed in the right direction.
I would also strongly suggest giving this thread a read through
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

Of course the first person to respond to me would have the name Crabs. I should have known better, lol.

Thanks - That thread is quite a read.. I skimmed through some of it. I have a TDS meter, basic tests and what not so that's something I already have. I strictly use RO water that I re-mineralize for my fresh water tanks so I'm used to being careful with water parameters and what goes in it. Reading through it reminds me of another question I should have asked - filter media. Would I use the same media I have in my canister filter now - if I were able to use that filter? (sponge, activated carbon, ceramic). I read ceramic with saltwater is kind of pointless seeing as the live rock is kind of fulfills that purpose.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I wouldn't use the canister filter. In saltwater tanks they tend to be nitrate factories if not kept constantly cleaned.

 

[Crabbs]

I wouldn't use the canister filter. In saltwater tanks they tend to be nitrate factories if not kept constantly cleaned.

Hmm.. well, if that's the case, maybe I'll just use a HOB filter like an aquaclear. I actually have a mignon 60 filter on my 6 gallon with the canister filter for a little extra filtration/flow (the canister flow is terrible). I'm wondering, if I were to use a HOB filter, where would I place it on the aquarium? Would a power head be necessary or could I just put the HOB on one of the sides of the aquarium and get all my flow from there? It's a small aquarium in volume, but it is 24" long.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Hmm.. well, if that's the case, maybe I'll just use a HOB filter like an aquaclear. I actually have a mignon 60 filter on my 6 gallon with the canister filter for a little extra filtration/flow (the canister flow is terrible). I'm wondering, if I were to use a HOB filter, where would I place it on the aquarium? Would a power head be necessary or could I just put the HOB on one of the sides of the aquarium and get all my flow from there? It's a small aquarium in volume, but it is 24" long.

I would still use a small power head. The hob will create some flow, but probably not enough for 2 feet

 

[Caseyoidae]

Welcome to the Salty side! It doesn't have to be costly but has a tendency to be addicting you can switch out a lot of equipment like the Crabbs have stated. Just poke around on here a bit

 

[Jesterrace]

A 6 gallon tank with saltwater is extremely limited in what you can keep. A single small goby or maybe a firefish would be the the max for that tank. That and water perameters and salinity would require quite a bit of daily attention and effort (ie water evaporates but salt doesn't). 20-30 gallons is about the minimum recommended for beginners to saltwater both for water perameter stability concerns and for stocking issues. Keep in mind that saltwater fish need more space than freshwater fish.

 

[Tautog]

Welcome to Reef2Reef! Your questions can get answered here!
I spent a year researching equipment, tank sizes, lighting, LFS, and all the chemicals and additives. This hobby can be as expensive as you want. IMO, the larger the tank the better, longer is better than deeper for O2 exchange. Buy the biggest tank possible. A quality, easy to clean Skimmer, Reef Octopus or DelTec. Then lighting, here’s where, again, buy quality. Try to decide the type of corals you wish to keep. LEDs use less power, whereas MH use a ton of energy. Pumps and powerheads are your next expense, but price varies greatly based on features. Wait to buy quality, ask, ask, ask! But start with a big tank, it’s easier to run, and more room for corals.

 

[JCM]

Starting a reef tank can become overwhelming very quickly for someone just starting out. But don't let that discourage you because it's also a very rewarding endeavor.

The complexity of your setup will be totally dependant on what you plan to keep. Like you said, established live rock can be packed with neat little critters that are fun to explore on their own. For this, all you need is water flow and an appropriate temperature. I would suggest a HOB filter rather than the canister. There are a number of acceptable media's, carbon is good.

From your list, I'll say that the clownfish will need a larger tank than your 6g. Most anemones are significantly harder to care for than the other things you've listed. They need very stable water parameters, strong lighting and ample water flow. Probably best to avoid one at this time.

Small shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, starfish, etc. Are all good choices and will be fine with just live rock, flow, and temp control.

Best of luck!

 

[ksfulk]

Welcome to R2R!

While I dont have a lot of experience in the small sized aquarium setting, there are a number of resources on this site that can help with your setup! Here is a thread on a setup about the size of your tank. There are numerous pico/nano builds that dont use much equipment at all, and rely only on large water changes for nutrient export and other functions. @hart24601 has a really cool little 2g reef in a jar, which can be found here, that has all sorts of pumps and things in it and is doing well. Its a good read for some ideas. Here is another really awesome thread on small setups as well. Granted they are smaller than your setup, but I think you can really get away with a minimal amount of equipment if you are more hands on with your tank. Here is another good resource if you can get your hands on the magazine.

Perhaps some of the other more experienced people with small setups can help chime in with their experience @brandon429 @saltyfilmfolks

 

[Codeman28]

I had a standard 10g going for Abit, I just used HOB filter, small powerhead, and 2bulb T-5 fixture. Never grew any SPS but did alright with zoa's and a torch. Aquaclear filters are great filters, you can do alot with them.. just Google Aquaclear DIY or ask people hear.

 

[mjlash22]

Welcome to R2R!

I would still use a small power head. The hob will create some flow, but probably not enough for 2 feet

+1 HOB filter flow alone will not be enough.

A 6 gallon tank with saltwater is extremely limited in what you can keep. A single small goby or maybe a firefish would be the the max for that tank. That and water perameters and salinity would require quite a bit of daily attention and effort (ie water evaporates but salt doesn't). 20-30 gallons is about the minimum recommended for beginners to saltwater both for water perameter stability concerns and for stocking issues. Keep in mind that saltwater fish need more space than freshwater fish.

Also agree here. I think a 6 gallon will be more difficult to maintain, especially for just starting out. The swings in your water parameters will be pretty drastic if not maintained constantly. Not to mention, you're very limited on the amount of livestock you will be able to put in without exploding your nitrate levels.

 

[mcarroll]

A 6 gallon tank with saltwater is extremely limited in what you can keep. A single small goby or maybe a firefish would be the the max for that tank. That and water perameters and salinity would require quite a bit of daily attention and effort (ie water evaporates but salt doesn't). 20-30 gallons is about the minimum recommended for beginners to saltwater both for water perameter stability concerns and for stocking issues. Keep in mind that saltwater fish need more space than freshwater fish.

Agreed!

@Crabbs Although there are some really small gobies and blennies that could fit, I might even suggest that going fish-less would be more ideal.

None of the really showy fish will fit anyway, so try looking at all the inverts you could potentially house – kinda up your alley anyway.

I'd do inverts coral and probably never look back.

Wait and do fish when you have the ability to set up a good-sized tank – around 100 gallons and up is definitely ideal.

A 36" tank would be my minimum recommendation...and I think you'll find 36" cramping in some ways....it's still just a "really big" small tank.

 

[hart24601]

You can do nano and Pico's very easy and inexpensive but there are some "rules" to them that make it so much easier.


No fish will make the system much much easier to care for. Some inverts like shrimp are still really interesting. I have 0 fish in my pico and don't miss them at all with lots of coral. The daily feeding of fish is just such a large nutrient import. If you get anything feed very sparingly.

With those minimal inputs of food, don't need a filter. Just live rock and a decent powerhead. That's all.

Plan on doing large W/C every week. Inexpensive salt is fine. In a 6g tank a 5g bucket of salt is easy to make. Get a spare pump and heater, add the water, salt, heater and pump and it's all ready to change the water in a couple hours when you match salinity. Every week becomes a chemistry reset and the salt only costs about $2-$3 a week.

Manage evaporation. Either a auto top off or just a tight fitting lid. Salinity changes are bad. But a tight lid can be just fine! Test it out!

You can easily do this all for far under $100.

Tank below is 4g cube. No ato. No filter. Pics are of coral from in it.

 

[MaddyP]

 

[reefwiser]

The Issues with small tanks and salt water is that you need to keep very forgiving corals. Many hard corals can die to water parameter changes. So you need to make sure that when you do water changes that the Alk reading is spot on with each water change. The light you picked is fine for a fish only system I wouldn't use it on a coral system. Small tanks are nice and cute but they do take a lot of care and meticulous aquarium care to keep them running well. It is much easier to have more success with larger tanks because of the water volume makes parameters not swing like they do in small aquariums.

 

[hart24601]

The Issues with small tanks and salt water is that you need to keep very forgiving corals. Many hard corals can die to water parameter changes. So you need to make sure that when you do water changes that the Alk reading is spot on with each water change. The light you picked is fine for a fish only system I wouldn't use it on a coral system. Small tanks are nice and cute but they do take a lot of care and meticulous aquarium care to keep them running well. It is much easier to have more success with larger tanks because of the water volume makes parameters not swing like they do in small aquariums.

Not to confuse someone starting out, but that cube above I have never matched alk when doing 100% w/c or even tested it. During the week I will even just put in a pinch of baking soda from time to time. Just an fyi!

 

[Crabbs]

Wow, didn't expect all these responses, thanks everyone!

So, consensus seems to stick with invertebrates if I'm doing a small tank, which is kind of what I was wanting anyway. Right now I have nothing but small freshwater tanks. A 5, 6, 10 and a 20 gallon. I'm constantly adding water to these. At all times I have 5 gallon buckets of RO water in my room that I remineralize. Still sounds like a whole other ball game with saltwater though. Don't really want to be running extra pumps/heaters in a bucket to have water ready for changes. Maybe I'll just hold off for now until I can do a bigger tank. When I was a kid I had a 10 gallon at one point and a 55 gallon at another.. I don't remember my mom ever having to have a bucket of water ready to put in either of the tanks. I'm not sure what she did exactly. That being said.. I don't think the 10 gallon lasted that long. I remember having a cowfish and seahorse.. and maybe even a small horseshoe crab. This was probably 25 years ago. The 55 gallon was a lot of live rock and other oddball fish/anemone. Hearing how difficult it might be to keep a small saltwater tank healthy has me reconsidering. I'll have to think about it, thanks for the help guys.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't really want to be running extra pumps/heaters in a bucket to have water ready for changes.

You're right that's a hassle – luckily that's not a great way to mix saltwater anyway.

• Your hand or a mixing paddle will work better than a pump for stirring.
• NO HEAT PLEASE unless your water is really cold for some reason.
  
• It only takes about 5 minutes for a bucket to be fully mixed and ready for use.
• I did it that way every day for about 7 months here A Water Change A Day...
• And I made videos to help! (Even one to show the best way to use a pump if you choose to do that.)

Here's my preferred way after mixing 114 daily buckets of saltwater!

Mixing saltwater, Neanderthal-style!

For anyone interested, that's a 36" Tamco HDPE mixing paddle. Mixing 20 oz. (volume) of salt mix with 5 gallons of RO/DI water to get 1.025 s.g. artificial seawater.


Here's how to use a pump to do it.


Mixing saltwater, post-electrification!

For those interested, that's a Seio 1000 propellor-based pump. Mixing 20 oz. (volume) of salt mix with 5 gallons of RO/DI water to get 1.025 s.g. artificial seawater.​