several questions about stn

[Troylee]

I disagree with that. It really depends on the cause. As I wrote I lost every sps in my tank due to rtn/stn. I suspect the rest would have been fine if I just removed the affected monti instead of blowing it clean.

Some parasites also seem to cause it.

Stn and rtn wasn’t the cause… when you figure out what caused the stn,rtn most likely a alk spike that’s the issue.. it is not contagious, I promise you! There’s very old sps tanks that just get a ghost every once in while and everything else is just fine.. I’ve played that game many times over 20 years of keeping sps.. I just lost my asd rainbow Millie to stn while 60 other acros are flourishing and growing at record pace! Never changed a thing and the tank never skipped a beat. I’ve been scraping my montis lately to cause rtn cause they’re over running prime real estate and no issues at all!

 

[Tavero]

Stn and rtn wasn’t the cause… when you figure out what caused the stn,rtn most likely a alk spike that’s the issue.. it is not contagious, I promise you! There’s very old sps tanks that just get a ghost every once in while and everything else is just fine.. I’ve played that game many times over 20 years of keeping sps.. I just lost my asd rainbow Millie to stn while 60 other acros are flourishing and growing at record pace! Never changed a thing and the tank never skipped a beat. I’ve been scraping my montis lately to cause rtn cause they’re over running prime real estate and no issues at all!

How can you promise me something if you don't know my system?
I don't dose alkalinity manually but have a doser and do weekly test.

The first coral that died was the part of the plated montipora under the collected detrius. A few days after I have blown the detrius away the rest of my sps started to show sighs of necrosis. The plated monti was dead by then.

I can promise you, they got infected by the dying montipora fragments. No alkalinity, temperature or density spike.

Not all rtn/stn have the same reasons

 

[Troylee]

How can you promise me something if you don't know my system?
I don't dose alkalinity manually but have a doser and do weekly test.

The first coral that died was the part of the plated montipora under the collected detrius. A few days after I have blown the detrius away the rest of my sps started to show sighs of necrosis. The plated monti was dead by then.

I can promise you, they got infected by the dying montipora fragments. No alkalinity, temperature or density spike.

Not all rtn/stn have the same reasons

Your case must be super rare if that really happened for that reason.. people have been killing montis by scraping or kalk paste for years and no ill effects on other sps.

 

[dadnjesse]

Your case must be super rare if that really happened for that reason.. people have been killing montis by scraping or kalk paste for years and no ill effects on other sps.

I wish scraping Monti's would work for me. Mine just grow back and often spread from the scraping.

 

[Pod_01]

Not all rtn/stn have the same reasons

Out of curiosity how were your other parameters?
I be curious to know how was your NO3 and PO4 tracking before the event ? What was the level of these when it happened?
Did you use any NO3/PO4 methods like GFO to control them.

If the information is available…

 

[Liam's tank]

My NO3 has been consistent @ 8.6 PO4 I have struggled with, it was as high as .25 and has leveled off to around .18 I used chemi pure elite to bring it down to the .18 but have not identified the source of the high number. I have only 4 fish that I feed every other day a very small amount of LRS frozen, alternating with a frozen "green" food that contains plankton, krill, spinach, spirulina and lots more. So I feed the LRS 3 times a week & the green once per week. I feed the corals AB+ 4mml every other day and dose All For Reef 4mml every other day.

 

[Pod_01]

I used chemi pure elite to bring it down to the .18 but have not identified the source of the high number.

I am sure your source of PO4 is from frozen foods. Nothing wrong with frozen foods but it will elevate PO4 and from my experience using GFO (chemi pure contains GFO) doesn’t agree well with corals. I suspect GFO binds other things that eventually leads to coral death.

I don’t believe PO4 in the 0.15-0.25 range is bad or that it will kill corals but nothing wrong with managing the level.

Just a long suggestion.
I would use the frozen once a week, just to use up the supplies. At the same time I would transition to Fauna Marin soft Multi Mix pellets (or other high quality pellets). I use FM pellets and I feed my fish 4 times a day and my PO4 has been going down from 0.2ppm to 0.14ppm. Nice and slow. For filtration I only use skimmer and little bit of GAC.

The fish will create the right food for your corals and I would also stop dosing AB+. If your NO3 drops to 1ppm or less you can dose some AB+ at that time. If your NO3 is above 1ppm you are likely over fertilizing your corals. Corals tend to grow better with some limitations vs. excess.

Some other things I would do, use GAC (Granular Activated Carbon 20ml per 50gal) and consider to use some carbon dosing, I use NP Bacto Ballance and just 0.3 ml /50gal daily to feed the tank bacteria and hopefully corals can feed on the bacteria. Another food source for the corals.

My tank NO3 and PO4 is as follows:

Some corals:

Alternative to carbon dosing is TM reef actif, I used it and I had great results with it but unfortunately I am unable to procure more.

Good luck,

 

[Liam's tank]

I am sure your source of PO4 is from frozen foods. Nothing wrong with frozen foods but it will elevate PO4 and from my experience using GFO (chemi pure contains GFO) doesn’t agree well with corals. I suspect GFO binds other things that eventually leads to coral death.

I don’t believe PO4 in the 0.15-0.25 range is bad or that it will kill corals but nothing wrong with managing the level.

Just a long suggestion.
I would use the frozen once a week, just to use up the supplies. At the same time I would transition to Fauna Marin soft Multi Mix pellets (or other high quality pellets). I use FM pellets and I feed my fish 4 times a day and my PO4 has been going down from 0.2ppm to 0.14ppm. Nice and slow. For filtration I only use skimmer and little bit of GAC.

The fish will create the right food for your corals and I would also stop dosing AB+. If your NO3 drops to 1ppm or less you can dose some AB+ at that time. If your NO3 is above 1ppm you are likely over fertilizing your corals. Corals tend to grow better with some limitations vs. excess.

Some other things I would do, use GAC (Granular Activated Carbon 20ml per 50gal) and consider to use some carbon dosing, I use NP Bacto Ballance and just 0.3 ml /50gal daily to feed the tank bacteria and hopefully corals can feed on the bacteria. Another food source for the corals.

My tank NO3 and PO4 is as follows:

Some corals:

Alternative to carbon dosing is TM reef actif, I used it and I had great results with it but unfortunately I am unable to procure more.

Good luck,

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all that knowledge & experience. I will definitely give your recommendations a try!

 

[Kmst80]

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all that knowledge & experience. I will definitely give your recommendations a try!

What's the news, did you solve the problem and what did you try/do?

 

[Liam's tank]

Unfortunately the stylo didn't make it. I eliminated the frozen food & stopped using AB+. My PO4 remains at 0.25. I stopped chasing that number awhile back. It seems that is where my tank lives. I still can't keep any SPS, all my LPS & softies are thriving, I have 2 torches, one has split into 2 heads & the other now has 3. My duncan started with 2 small heads & now has too many to count. Hammer has split into 3 heads, zoas growing like weeds. My bowerbanki is fat and happy...
Any time I try to add an SPS it slowly dies.

 

[SimbaAnto]

First and foremost ensure your alk is stable with a margin of .5 dkh swing at max daily.

This is what helps SPS to grow better. So ensure your water changes are accordingly made to ensure the alk is not altered.

 

[Liam's tank]

First and foremost ensure your alk is stable with a margin of .5 dkh swing at max daily.

This is what helps SPS to grow better. So ensure your water changes are accordingly made to ensure the alk is not altered.

Alk is stable, in the AM prior to lights on it's 8.6 & at night with lights on full it's 9.0

 

[jackson6745]

You should be able to keep SPS in your tank. Let try to find out why that isn't happening. You should look at the very basics to start.
-Verify your salinity with another calibrated device.
-Besides the stylo, what other failed sps did you try?
-What is your water change schedule, which salt? I'll assume you're using 0 tds rodi
-what are you using for flow?
-Are you dosing anything?
-You should post a pic of your tank. Makes it easier to see what's going on.

It's a pretty cliche thing to say these days, but if you end up not finding a definitive answer, and still can't keep sps but have the desire to do so, spending the $40 on an ICP test is a great option.

 

[Liam's tank]

You should be able to keep SPS in your tank. Let try to find out why that isn't happening. You should look at the very basics to start.
-Verify your salinity with another calibrated device.
-Besides the stylo, what other failed sps did you try?
-What is your water change schedule, which salt? I'll assume you're using 0 tds rodi
-what are you using for flow?
-Are you dosing anything?
-You should post a pic of your tank. Makes it easier to see what's going on.

It's a pretty cliche thing to say these days, but if you end up not finding a definitive answer, and still can't keep sps but have the desire to do so, spending the $40 on an ICP test is a great option.

I just ordered a Tropic Marin high precision hydrometer
I've lost a pink birds nest, leptoseris, psammocora, cyphastrea & two stylo's
I do a 10% wc weekly
Flow is two Hygger wave makers
I dose 6ml all for reef daily
I also ordered replacement filters for mt RODI, it & the hydrometer will be in this week.
I have a Oculina Robusta that hitchhiked in on my live rock & it is doing great, it is an SPS which is why I tried an SPS in the first place. I figured if that SPS is thriving, I should be good to go. I also added a second AI prime 16hd prior to getting my first SPS to be sure I had enough light.
I'll take a tank pic later today, my lights will be on full by 2:00

 

[Liam's tank]

Zoom in on the Oculina Robusta & you can see how well it's doing.

 

[Kmst80]

Unfortunately the stylo didn't make it. I eliminated the frozen food & stopped using AB+. My PO4 remains at 0.25. I stopped chasing that number awhile back. It seems that is where my tank lives. I still can't keep any SPS, all my LPS & softies are thriving, I have 2 torches, one has split into 2 heads & the other now has 3. My duncan started with 2 small heads & now has too many to count. Hammer has split into 3 heads, zoas growing like weeds. My bowerbanki is fat and happy...
Any time I try to add an SPS it slowly dies.

I am in the same boat, my sps last weeks or month, eventually they either brown out or loose colour. No polyp extension. Sometimes they come back.And then the stn takes them alltogether.
I am working on nitrates(~25) and phosphates(0.25) atm.
If that does nothing I start playing with the lights.

 

[Liam's tank]

I am in the same boat, my sps last weeks or month, eventually they either brown out or loose colour. No polyp extension. Sometimes they come back.And then the stn takes them alltogether.
I am working on nitrates(~25) and phosphates(0.25) atm.
If that does nothing I start playing with the lights.

I really am at a loss; all my numbers are good, and they are stable. As you can see in the photo the one SPS that hitchhiked in looks great, all the other corals in the tank are doing great, it's a head scratcher lol. I'll keep fighting the good fight. If I figure it out, I'll let you know. I would caution you about playing with the lights, consistence long term is very important with lighting. If you think that your par is not adequate & you can't rent a par meter, then increase slowly!

 

[jackson6745]

I just ordered a Tropic Marin high precision hydrometer
I've lost a pink birds nest, leptoseris, psammocora, cyphastrea & two stylo's
I do a 10% wc weekly
Flow is two Hygger wave makers
I dose 6ml all for reef daily
I also ordered replacement filters for mt RODI, it & the hydrometer will be in this week.
I have a Oculina Robusta that hitchhiked in on my live rock & it is doing great, it is an SPS which is why I tried an SPS in the first place. I figured if that SPS is thriving, I should be good to go. I also added a second AI prime 16hd prior to getting my first SPS to be sure I had enough light.
I'll take a tank pic later today, my lights will be on full by 2:00

You should try some Montipora digi or cap in there after verifying your salinity with the TM hydrometer. That tool is awesome. Use it in its own sleeve filled with water in case you didn’t know. I think you need a few more hard easy type of sps from a local reefers tank to determine that you can’t keep sps

 

[Liam's tank]

You should try some Montipora digi or cap in there after verifying your salinity with the TM hydrometer. That tool is awesome. Use it in its own sleeve filled with water in case you didn’t know. I think you need a few more hard easy type of sps from a local reefers tank to determine that you can’t keep sps

I forgot to add that one to the list, I had a monti digi that also failed

 

[Kmst80]

I really am at a loss; all my numbers are good, and they are stable. As you can see in the photo the one SPS that hitchhiked in looks great, all the other corals in the tank are doing great, it's a head scratcher lol. I'll keep fighting the good fight. If I figure it out, I'll let you know. I would caution you about playing with the lights, consistence long term is very important with lighting. If you think that your par is not adequate & you can't rent a par meter, then increase slowly!

Me too. I've got a pocillopora that is going great but most people would class that nuisance. I got a millepora with no polyp extension but nice colour that is in the tank for over a year now. All others die. Montipora, Acropora, other millepora, psammo, tubinaria...
Had a acro come in on the rock, coloured up nicely to just brown out after 6 month and now stn, same with some porites, just started now after a year to brown out and then stn.
I have got a ar meter, I mapped the whole tank, got 200-250 par up top, 150 middle and 100 bottom. I just read the browning could be from to much or not enough light. But I get my nutrients a bit down first and see if that changes anything. One thing at the time. Last thing you want is all over corals and my nems to be upset.