Shadow Overflow Noise

Dubs83 · Jul 22, 2017

I really wish I found a solution to the noise this thing makes in this thread. @mixer911 its great you defend your product but to be honest, your shadow over flow is what I'm least impressed with from my build. I've searched for days, weeks and months without a solution. I've tried the directions RS provides to no success. I've tried experimenting with different stand pipe heights- from lower to higher to no stand pipe at all for the full siphon. I've allowed the water in the rear box to come up as high as possible without actually spilling over and it's still loud. Someone suggested I make sure the bulkheads connecting the internal box to the external box are submerged... noise. Two things make it dead silent, removing the weir, and stuffing the internal box with filter foam. Neither one of those is a solution in my opinion. I do not come here to bash you or Reef Synergy but I beg you, provide us with a solution that goes beyond "experiment a bit". It's hard to enjoy my tank with the noise that comes from it.

mixer911 · Jul 22, 2017

Dubs83 said:
I really wish I found a solution to the noise this thing makes in this thread. @mixer911 its great you defend your product but to be honest, your shadow over flow is what I'm least impressed with from my build. I've searched for days, weeks and months without a solution. I've tried the directions RS provides to no success. I've tried experimenting with different stand pipe heights- from lower to higher to no stand pipe at all for the full siphon. I've allowed the water in the rear box to come up as high as possible without actually spilling over and it's still loud. Someone suggested I make sure the bulkheads connecting the internal box to the external box are submerged... noise. Two things make it dead silent, removing the weir, and stuffing the internal box with filter foam. Neither one of those is a solution in my opinion. I do not come here to bash you or Reef Synergy but I beg you, provide us with a solution that goes beyond "experiment a bit". It's hard to enjoy my tank with the noise that comes from it.

@Dubs83 First and foremost, thanks for using our overflow. I totally understand you are not bashing. I usually recommend that people first get their plumbing setup properly first as we have found that the majority of noise issues are caused by how it was plumbed. If it is not plumbed properly then it will never be silent. With this overflow there is such a wide dynamic range of people using it. We have people with 20 gallon nanos up to 800 gallon tanks. With that range you will have people with literally hundreds of different configurations in plumbing of their tanks and pumps that they run. Even internal flow pumps like a vortech can cause noise issues in the front weir in some scenarios. Every scenario is different and may affect how the overflow performs. For the majority of our customers that use this overflow (over a few thousand) they do not have this issue. We are here to help and have found that this particular noise issue is not happening with every overflow. Most we have found that did have this type of issue had something else going on like I mentioned above with vortechs blowing into the overflow are causing water to splash into the front box. This leads us to have to look at each one on a case by case basis. If you are getting any sort of noise inside the front box after you have dialed it in and have the flow set properly you may need to use a small piece of matalla mat or Enkamat. This is very easy to do and will not affect the overall performance of the overflow. It was mentioned in post #13 as well. I respect that you may think this is not a solution, but it does correct that issue if you are having it. These particular mats were designed to be used in overflows for various types of systems. I did read thru your build thread and you mentioned that it was dead silent. So I am curious as to when the noise issue started.

Dubs83 · Jul 22, 2017

mixer911 said:
@Dubs83 First and foremost, thanks for using our overflow. I totally understand you are not bashing. I usually recommend that people first get their plumbing setup properly first as we have found that the majority of noise issues are caused by how it was plumbed. If it is not plumbed properly then it will never be silent. With this overflow there is such a wide dynamic range of people using it. We have people with 20 gallon nanos up to 800 gallon tanks. With that range you will have people with literally hundreds of different configurations in plumbing of their tanks and pumps that they run. Even internal flow pumps like a vortech can cause noise issues in the front weir in some scenarios. Every scenario is different and may affect how the overflow performs. For the majority of our customers that use this overflow (over a few thousand) they do not have this issue. We are here to help and have found that this particular noise issue is not happening with every overflow. Most we have found that did have this type of issue had something else going on like I mentioned above with vortechs blowing into the overflow are causing water to splash into the front box. This leads us to have to look at each one on a case by case basis. If you are getting any sort of noise inside the front box after you have dialed it in and have the flow set properly you may need to use a small piece of matalla mat or Enkamat. This is very easy to do and will not affect the overall performance of the overflow. It was mentioned in post #13 as well. I respect that you may think this is not a solution, but it does correct that issue if you are having it. These particular mats were designed to be used in overflows for various types of systems. I did read thru your build thread and you mentioned that it was dead silent. So I am curious as to when the noise issue started.

Thank you for your reply in an attempt to try and help me fix this. A little about the plumbing. I'm using your U pipes and reduce the drains to 1". The drains all have roughly 10' vertical drop and 4' of horizontal run. The gate valve located at the lowest point of the full siphon drain. The drains themselves are dead silent. My return, considering the head loss pumping water from the basement, flows roughly 1000gph at best. The drain configuration in the external box is currently per your instructions. To your point, I there is quite a bit of turbulence at the surface and near the weir from my MP40s but to play Devils advocate, most of the surface movement is cause by my return nozzles. I'm familiar with enkemat and am not completely opposed to it but I'm a bit nervous to it collecting debris and over time clogging, potentially causing a mess. I travel quite and we al know Murphy's law.

The over flow was silent for maybe the first month. I had my return dialed back quite a bit. I couldn't tell you what GPH for sure as I don't have a FMK to get an accurate number. Once I opened the gates it became incredibly loud. The Iwaki pump I'm using isn't a high flow pump as much as it is a pressure pump. Even with zero head pressure, it still shouldnt outperform your over flow so it leads me to believe that it's either my mp40s or my rear box plumbing. But I promise I've tinkered with it so much I'm starting to lose hope.

I can certainly kill my MP40s for a few minutes to check that theory. Have you any other suggestions?

Digigill · Aug 28, 2017

iiluisii said:
Uneducated guess umm well as I own a so call knock off that in every way outperforms the shadow I guess I will have to educate you.

It's simple math, measure the rear shadow overflow box height and with any way you configure the pipes the level won't be right therefore creating noise unless you run it at dangerous water level height. Again simple math. And this is what I addressed to the user stating that this is why it won't work right. So yes I'm helping a reefer understand why it's not working right and not batshing

Now let me address your frustarated statements.

#1 and #2 the shadow rear box sealed.
You mean the lid that snaps in place, is this statement something you came up as a guess? How is supposed to vacuum seal if it's not able to be vacuum seal in the first place it's just snaps in place lol. The rear box was designed in that way to be able to clear the tanks with trim around them because the rear box it's to close to the glass, which most manufactures of other overflow boxes have addressed this issue changing the design bringing the box up level with the internal box and adding a spacer allowing the box to be universal and properly functioning.

We all know it's is easy to blame the user and In most cases the user is the problem but in this case is not. The overflow is improperly designed.

There's plenty of people already discussing this in other forums and reviews from user claiming this issues bellow:

1. 1.5 inch pipes not fitting correctly in the drain fitting due to wrong tolerance.

2. Drain fittings splitting due to not being one piece as it claims to be.

3. Noise problems

I agree. I've had the same issues. The noise is solvable but with much effort and some filter mesh installed in the right places. If the box was designed properly these hacks wouldn't be needed.

mixer911 · Aug 28, 2017

Digigill said:
I agree. I've had the same issues. The noise is solvable but with much effort and some filter mesh installed in the right places. If the box was designed properly these hacks wouldn't be needed.

Box is designed perfectly fine. Having over 2000 people see it live in person over the weekend at MACNA with no modifications, just properly tuned, it was dead silent. I can guarantee it is the quietest overflow available when tuned properly.

mixer911 · Aug 28, 2017

@Digigill

Dubs83 · Aug 28, 2017

Yet, this is what mine sounds like.

Three things quiet it down. Getting rid of almost all surface agitation, removing the weir or throttling the return pump back. I've tried slowing my mp40s back and it helped a bit but I had almost no flow in the tank. I'm starting to give up on this thing. The noise is not the plumbing. It's coming directly from the internal box.

mixer911 · Aug 28, 2017

Dubs83 said:
Yet, this is what mine sounds like.

Three things quiet it down. Getting rid of almost all surface agitation, removing the weir or throttling the return pump back. I've tried slowing my mp40s back and it helped a bit but I had almost no flow in the tank. I'm starting to give up on this thing. The noise is not the plumbing. It's coming directly from the internal box.

Video of your rear Box? Sounds like your water level is low.

.AcroKiller. · Aug 28, 2017

mixer911 said:
@Digigill

Not bashing your product but the overflow is not running as it was intended to run in this video I'm just pointing out some flaws that are easy to spot. Is this to try to make it silent? The emergency drain is way up by the rim of the rear box and the water level is dangerously higher to not have so much of a water drop noise from the internal overflow. Rick you make great products but come on man help this people with this problem instead of masking the problem.

Bring your rear box level to the internal box and your problems with noise will be gone.

mixer911 · Aug 28, 2017

iiluisii said:
Not bashing your product but the overflow is not running as it was intended to run in this video I'm just pointing out some flaws that are easy to spot. Is this to try to make it silent? The emergency drain is way up by the rim of the rear box and the water level is dangerously higher to not have so much of a water drop noise from the internal overflow. Rick you make great products but come on man help this people with this problem instead of masking the problem.

Bring your rear box level to the internal box and your problems with noise will be gone.

Luis, it is my product and my invention. I know how it functions and is supposed to function. I have tested and buikt these for over 5 years. What you see in the video is the proper way. The water level is not "dangerously" high. The level is perfectly fine, especially with the lid that is snapped on and not just laying on top like others. Sure you could lower the emergency another 1" and it will still work the same way. How are there flaws? What is your basis for basing the flaws. You see it running. Yes, you will always find flaws because you have a personal vendetta for my company. This overflow is designed to work with a wide range of tank sizes and flows. Getting it set properly is sometimes tricky for some people. Most have no issue setting it up themselves, some need assistance. I am herd to help my customers, not go back and forth with you about your perception of a product you have never used. Again we have thousands of VERY SATISIFIED customers. If you don't like it just move on. There are plenty of other copies out there you can go complain about.

If you look at our original design of the ghost the rear box was the same level of the front box, but was changed for a purpose and works the same way. It only adds to the benefits of making it a universal overflow. Again I know how my overflows perform.

.AcroKiller. · Aug 29, 2017

mixer911 said:
Luis, it is my product and my invention. I know how it functions and is supposed to function. I have tested and buikt these for over 5 years. What you see in the video is the proper way. The water level is not "dangerously" high. The level is perfectly fine, especially with the lid that is snapped on and not just laying on top like others. Sure you could lower the emergency another 1" and it will still work the same way. How are there flaws? What is your basis for basing the flaws. You see it running. Yes, you will always find flaws because you have a personal vendetta for my company. This overflow is designed to work with a wide range of tank sizes and flows. Getting it set properly is sometimes tricky for some people. Most have no issue setting it up themselves, some need assistance. I am herd to help my customers, not go back and forth with you about your perception of a product you have never used. Again we have thousands of VERY SATISIFIED customers. If you don't like it just move on. There are plenty of other copies out there you can go complain about.

If you look at our original design of the ghost the rear box was the same level of the front box, but was changed for a purpose and works the same way. It only adds to the benefits of making it a universal overflow. Again I know how my overflows perform.

There's no personal vendetta for your company I always point out something that it's wrong from any company so again and I'm not bashing your company. The overflow is running how is intended to run in that video? So how is the emergency drain suppose to work if the pipe is the same height as the rim of the overflow? Everyone knows why all the overflows from most companies were designed with this off set rear box it's not rocket science but at the time no one thought on how to make it work with types of tanks if they are both at the same height but now people have and some have re designed then.

Anyhow I wish you success with the overflow and hope your customers resolve the issues with the overflow.

mixer911 · Aug 29, 2017

iiluisii said:
There's no personal vendetta for your company I always point out something that it's wrong from any company so again and I'm not bashing your company. The overflow is running how is intended to run in that video? So how is the emergency drain suppose to work if the pipe is the same height as the rim of the overflow? Everyone knows why all the overflows from most companies were designed with this off set rear box it's not rocket science but at the time no one thought on how to make it work with types of tanks if they are both at the same height but now people have and some have re designed then.

Anyhow I wish you success with the overflow and hope your customers resolve the issues with the overflow.

I can assure you that the emergency performed very well, just like the it was designed to. As did the overflow. I really wish you were there to experience it in person as others were. We ran multiple tests and demonstrations in real time, as well as answered questions for many customers. That is why we take the time to do these events.

revhtree · Aug 29, 2017

iiluisii said:
There's no personal vendetta for your company I always point out something that it's wrong from any company so again and I'm not bashing your company. The overflow is running how is intended to run in that video? So how is the emergency drain suppose to work if the pipe is the same height as the rim of the overflow? Everyone knows why all the overflows from most companies were designed with this off set rear box it's not rocket science but at the time no one thought on how to make it work with types of tanks if they are both at the same height but now people have and some have re designed then.

Anyhow I wish you success with the overflow and hope your customers resolve the issues with the overflow.

Is it true you've never used one of these overflows?