Should I be ticked at my LFS about Ich?

[roger saltwaters]

I guess this is my point...... First off, the LFS guys are super nice and overall have been very helpful. When I started this deal I checked out PetSmart, Petco, and Craigslist. (I'm an avid Craiglister) When I talked to the LFS guys, they informed me that I had to be careful with CL because of the possibility of disease contamination. Same goes for PetSmart. In the end I decided to buy EVERYTHING, at a premium price mind you, from the same LFS to avoid these complications.

And guess what happened......All of my fish have ick and you guys are telling me I have to buy a whole extra tank and quarantine for 2 months. Well heck. I could have done that on Craigslist. This is PRECISELY what I was trying to avoid. If they had just been honest with me about this upfront I guess I wouldn't be so disappointed.

 

[FarmerTy]

I think it's all just odds. Odds are in favor that the healthier fish may be found at the LFS and not on craigslist. This time, the odds didn't work out in your favor.

What to take from this is no matter what source, QT. You have control of the odds at that point.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

A QT tank doesn't prevent Ich, it's just your best bet of doing so. Unless you treat for Ich, there's always a risk of it entering your display via a missed single spot or a spot that is hidden in the gill. Usually it does come out during the time of acquisition, as it's a stressful time, but it doesn't have to. So, your LFS could QT it for you and it STILL have Ich when you get it home.

This hobby is full of lessons. As you can see, most of us don't fault the LFS, so you have to get a new game plan going to deal with this newest "challenge". People hate QT tanks, that's why you see so many people not using them. They hope they never get a disease, but the gamble is worth it to them.

 

[Shep]

To be honest you will pretty much never be able to buy fish from somewhere without the risk of ich or other diseases, I think its pretty crummy that they made it seem like their fish were ich free

 

[sNaFu]

I DONT THINK ANYBODY IS CALLING YOU AN IDIOT, I AM NEW AS WELL AND THERE IS A LOT TO LEARN. JUST TAKE SOME OF THE MONEY YOU SAVED ON YOUR SYSTEM AND SET UP A QT SYSTEM AS WELL, JUST A NECESSARY EVIEL. AND IF YOU ONLY HAVE 2K IN YOUR SYSTEM YOU HAVE GOTTEN BY PRETTY GOOD, I HAVE THAT IN JUST MY LIGHTS AND WAVEMAKERS. LOL

 

[Lionfish Lair]

sNaFu, that font is a little hard to read.

 

[Naiad]

The real problem is you can also get ich from rocks, coral, inverts anything that was in a tank with a fish infested. It is a hard thing to completely prevent unless you are serious about qt and ich treatment.

 

[sNaFu]

Sorry, my bad.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

QT is just a part of the hobby IMO. You can add fish and cross your fingers but it is Russian roulette. An inexpensive tank (Petco $1 gallon sales), a pump/filter to move water and possibly a heater. It's inexpensive insurance and certainly less expensive than a lot of fish in the long run.

I have a 240g tank that got hit with disease from a fish I purchased from the owner of a LFS that had this fish in his home reef tank for five years with no signs of anything (or so he said). I'm down about $1200 in fish on what I thought was a safe addition.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

With reference to the UV and Protoss are you saying only the UV will do the job or icy treatment would not be effective?

I did build holding sytems for retail aquarium stores for over 20 years. Their loss rates reached 30% many times before the use of proper U.V. Sterilizeration and filtration. After the new systems went on line the loss rates were 1%-5% so you can see there are major benefits to proper use of U.V. and well designed filtration.

I do not recommend treating any fish without proper diagnosis of the causative organism. The shotgun approach used by many kills more fish than it saves in my personal experiance. That said unless you have someone to help you with a microscope you are left just guessing at the causative organism. You can read lots of discussion on these forums that lead to high mortality as people try to guess based off a blurry photograph what the fish is suffering from. There are unfortunatly many threads where the hobbiest lost most if not all their fish trying to use this remedy or that remedy without diagnosis.

Most stores do not seem to be willing to develop a separate holding system to quarantine fish prior to sale. While I understand the economics of this policy I also understand that stores are bashed everyday for preceived high prices compared to "superstores" and the internet. If possible look for a store or source that will show you their quarantine system and observe fish behaviour in the sales tank before purchase. In fact many stores will hold you speciman for you for a period to make sure it is ready for you to take home. This is a quarantine method when no other holding system is availble to the store. So if the fish dies in their system they will owe you another fish.

There is to much pressure on the price of each speciman to turn inventory on the part of a store owner. If consumers are willing to pay for proper quarantine then more stores will provide it. Just to be clear none of the "super stores" have quarantine systems and that is why you often see the lights off on a tank with a "do not sell" sign. Unfortunatly the "super store" employees do not realize that many of the tanks are using co-mingled water and so the entire bank should be suspect. These systems have less than the necessary kill rate on the U.V. units if they exist at all.

Saltwater systems and fish are expensive to collect, breed, feed, and ship. As a result we should do all we can to support those that go out of their way to make sure only high quality healthy fish are delivered for sale. This is undermined each time you look for the lowest cost fish instead of the best quality fish at a reasonable price. Fish are not a money maker for stores...all the dry goods provide a much better margin and most times don't "die" on the shelf.

Hope this helps. Our attitude as consumers is just as important as the sellers of our livestock.

 

[aereaus]

Poor planning? That's what I went to these guys for. They didn't tell me I need a QT tank. Should they have?

I mean, in a perfect world stores would quarantine their fish but if youve worked in the trade you know its a risky business and only a small portion of the fish we receive in shipments 10-15% show any signs of ich or other disease, it does happen yes but it isnt common at my store anyways. Sometimes a QT tank at home isnt possible and I get that but instead of looking for someone to blame maybe we should realize its part of the hobby or find a better supplier for your fish. My two cent fwiw

 

[DeadheadSC]

We, as consumers with varying levels of expertise, have all see visibly distressed and clearly ill fish in stores for sale for years. Maybe they are covered in white sugar like spots, but they may be flashing, breathing hard, etc. Not everyone knows the symptoms. I've had associates tell me just how active a specimen is that is clearly in distress to an educated eye. If I can tell the fish has ich, so can the guys at the store. Fortunately, the folks at my LFS are honest about the condition of the fish they sell. QT procedures and proper care are great. Blaming the customer for purchasing a sick fish at the local store is a line they have been selling us for years and years. Most stores don't QT fish although they should. Is it the purchasers fault the store sold them a sick fish? Absolutely, positively not!!!! Is it there fault for allowing that fish to get the rest of his or her tank infected? As much as I'd say yes as an experienced fish keeper, it's hard, because so many people are new to these procedures and have no frame of reference. You QT for the healthy fish you already have.

 

[Paul B]

I won't get involved in ich or quarantine discussions (because of all the arguments) but fish in a store very rarely display ich spots because all the stores I know of (and a couple I helped start) keep copper or some other parasite medication in their tanks. Fish are also shipped in parasite medication so even though probably most, if not all fish have ich, you don't usually see it in the store. It's up to you to keep your fish healthy. One more thing, fish should "never" get sick, if they do, it is always our fault.

 

[Maritimer]

<snippage> When I talked to the LFS guys, they informed me that I had to be careful with CL because of the possibility of disease contamination. Same goes for PetSmart. In the end I decided to buy EVERYTHING, at a premium price mind you, from the same LFS to avoid these complications. <further snippage>

LFS' profit margin isn't high. He's struggling to stay in business in a neighborhood that also includes big-box retailers. (I know this, because we used to have several LFS in my town, but now there's a Petco, a Petsmart ... and another Petco) He told you half the truth - that you could come down with disease organisms in your system from Craigslist or the big-box store. Didn't mention that he couldn't guarantee the complete absence of disease in his own shop ... because he wanted you to buy stuff from him. (A strategy which works for some retailers, but one with debatable ethics . . . ) My general policy is to take what retailers and salespeople tell me with a substantial grain of salt, knowing their primary goal is to guide my dollars into their registers.

It's difficult to be new in this game - everything is bright and shiny, and the wilderness of information can be overwhelming. There are good people on this board, and for the vast majority, their prime concern is that you enjoy the hobby and that the creatures in your care survive and thrive. A big part of why I spend so much time here each evening . . .

~Bruce, who encountered the same problem - and whose tank has been fishless for about 71 days - due to ich. (A fellow can learn a lot in 71 days . . . some of it, the hard way. )

 

[aashley]

You are definitely not an idiot. It's just part of the learning curve. It's very hard to resist putting new fish in your system but they have been under a lot of stress and giving them a transition place to recuperate, get medicated and have no worries for a while is a great way to treat your new friend. You will also get to watch it's behaviors and learn what is normal and not normal. It is well worth the effort. Good luck and welcome to the hobby!