Should I do a water change during cycle?

[athomson101]

Hi all,

So I've set up my first tank just over two weeks ago and it is currently cycling. 55 litre tank with 3.5kg of live rock in it. Had a prawn in the tank for the first week and have been testing every day. I'm using Red Sea Marine Tests for Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites, Alkalinity and pH. Live Rock was only out of water

Everything progressed as expected to begin with. Ammonia shot up (and off the scale), Nitrite climbed slowly for the first week as did Nitrates. Alkalinity and pH are constant.

However, nothing seems to be coming down since.

Current levels are

Ammonia: 2ppm (off the scale as Red Sea kit only goes to this level, has been at this since day 3)
Nitrites: 1ppm (again off the Red Sea scale)
Nitrates: 50ppm (was less than 15ppm until three days ago and has shot up)
Alkalinity: 6.43 dKH
ph: 8.2
Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 25 deg C

I'm also getting diatoms on the live rock and sand now which from what I've read means the cycle should be ending?

I tested the unused saltwater that my local shop provided me for my first water change and ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were all zero. My local shop said they expected the whole cycle to last about a week as the live rock was only out of water for about three hours (from shop to my house to set up) and was kept damp the whole time.

My question is are these looking ok for this stage in a cycle? Should I do a large water change to bring the levels down?

Thanks.

 

[Phil D.]

No, if you do a water change you will upset the cycle process. Do you have the lights on or off? They should be off.

 

[Phil D.]

Also, it will take longer than a week.

 

[athomson101]

Thanks for the quick response. Lights are off and haven't been on since I set the tank up. I'm two weeks into the cycle now which is why I'm wondering if something needs doing.

 

[AZMSGT]

Leave it alone, cycle can take up to 8 weeks. Once it’s started don’t mess with anything.

Don’t worry about DKH till you are ready to start adding test corals.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Sit back and relax.....your cycle is still brewing.

However, with that high nitrate number your rock cure is in full swing. Curing rock allows the old death from within to decay and leach out of the rock. Unfortunately many folks today skip this step and wonder why they get these tremendous algae/diatom/cyano outbreaks shortly after setting up their tank. A good rock cure typically takes about a month and a half. The good news is that the cycle will most likely be done by the time the cure is winding down.

For a cure, you need to test nitrate (and/or phosphate) and do water changes until those numbers drop. I like weekly testing/water changes. Don't worry about removing "cycling" bacteria because very little is found in the water column....it's all in the rock. And now is really the only time you can do 100% water changes if you wish. Get your numbers to drop, and then the cure is finishing up.

 

[Trylobyte]

I think you should do a 10%-15% WC weekly during your cycle. In fact, even in BRStv's video Here (this is on their BRS + WWC hybrid tank so from 2 well known sources) states that you should be running all equipment, and starting your routine maintenance from the beginning so your tank "stabilizes" around these factors.

 

[brandon429]

Live rock doesnt need cycling, ergo all this wasnt needed if the description is accurate.

since we have full reefs that do 100% water changes, its ok to change your full reef rocks to any degree. moving live rocks from tank to tank, or store to home, doesnt ever kill off the bac.

if the rocks came home dry, then they weren't live...do u have pics

live rocks have pigments and inclusions that are apparent in pics.

have you noticed how in marine aquarium convention videos, its five hundred full reefs all started on the same day, without variance

not weeks or even days to being ready, but 100% ready with full corals and fish all on Friday.

 

[brandon429]

that above leads into the discussion: how you cycle a reef changes 100% direction if the rock is live vs dry upon input. --> we dont want to create and sustain the ammonia levels that dry rocks command in a live rock system, it burns worms.

remember: you have the choice to wait arbitrarily or

you can do what marine aquarium conventions do, that trust systems to run ten grand in corals and fish, all created on one day

*in case anyone was wondering, no they're not weak cycles they're as set as a 100 day cycle. w you put ten grand in corals in a weak cycle tank? study what marine aquarium conventions do, to truly understand updated vs outdated cycling science.

one of the ways conventions are so efficient is they dont recycle already-cycled rocks.

addit'l proofs your cycle was done a while back: the presence of nitrate. any reduction of ammonia vs what you initially dosed (zero ammonia not required/updated science)

 

[splitting_lanes]

Thanks for the quick response. Lights are off and haven't been on since I set the tank up. I'm two weeks into the cycle now which is why I'm wondering if something needs doing.

I don’t think you should do anything except wait two more weeks then test. You’ll see a big difference in the tests by then.

 

[brandon429]

Team

until the original poster posts back w pics, comment/riff on the marine aquarium convention cycle vs here

what are differences, and similarities

can he use any degree of what they do, to already be finished cycling>?

 

[athomson101]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. Been a bit swamped with work for the last few days. Who knew that when my company said I was to work from home, they actually meant work twice as hard as I work in the office...

So I tested everything again yesterday and today and ammonia level is right down over the last two days to about 0.1ppm. Nitrates and Nitrites are still off the scale.

I don't have any pictures of the live rock before I put it into the tank but I've attached a picture of the tank at the moment. However, the shop let me pick the rock out of their rock tank so it was definitely wet leaving the store. Kept wrapped in newspaper all the way home and was still damp when I filled my own tank at home.

I'm keeping the lights off until the cycle is complete also.

Some pictures of today's tests and a graph below also.

So, I'll keep waiting until the Nitrites drop also and then just do a big water change. I have 25 litres here so it will nearly be a 50% change.

 

[brandon429]

See this description of group b skip cycle rock from pet stores:

u have that
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


all pigments and benthic living inclusions from the pic above mean cycle was done, before you brought home rocks.

we would not apply ammonia here.

your type of cycle is why all authors who tell us how to cycle in their books or articles must redo all their work, it’s actually wrong in half of cycling cases. They did not allow for skip cycling, even though marine aquarium conventions were running as they wrote.

kp aquatics and tbs are companies that mail live rocks that leak ammonia bc ocean animals are dying off during shipping...still, we would not add ammonia we try and stop ammonia for those kind. How we cycle a reef tank is opposite depending on the types of rock we use.

 

[brandon429]

Remove shrimp, change water, siphon off all sandbed growths, all no future ones, begin reefing, all via pics not tests.

 

[Mmcghee102485]

Only if you see levels start to really stray out. I had mine go out of 8ppm of ammonia on Dr Tim’s fishless cycle and had to do a water change. I wouldn’t disturb substrate though.

 

[andrewey]

It's interesting. Whether or not to do a water change during a cycle seems to be completely anecdotal as I haven't seen any real evidence for or against it.

We know very little bacteria exist in the water column, so adding fresh salt water won't really "delay" or hurt the cycle. As far as diluting high phosphate/nitrate levels from the degradation of organics in the rock/ammonia processing, I haven't seen much evidence to suggest it would "help" the cycle along.

Obviously there are conceivable reasons to do it or not to do it (e.g. diluting the ammonia needed to kickstart the cycle), but if I had to guess, the honest truth is that it probably doesn't matter too much. I've changed water during cycles and waited 3 months before changing the water. I'm not sure I can tell the difference at the six month mark between those tanks...

 

[brandon429]

we all agree these rocks were cycled before he bought them though, is that agreed/ all?

as in


nothing left for him to add at home. all spaces, used by cycling bac. marine conventions...living animals stuck to the rock waving in the current, clear water, no smell...applicable here or no?

the reason a water change wont matter here is because he has a ready reef, and we do full water changes on nano reefs all the time, old ones. he's not cycling, he's reefing.


lets say this was a dry rock setup, no inherent starting bac bc rocks came to the tank dry and devoid of life, attachments and pigment: Dr. Reef's cycling thread on bottle bac studies show that all dosed systems using bottle bac across brands tested (all major ones) are immune to 100% water changes at max about a week after dosing. most are withing *48 hours

he tested viability of bottle bac by dosing then doing full water changes...this leaves only what attaches to surface area as the working measure.

You can change water about a week after adding any strain of bottle bac, when doing dry rock starts. we are talking total water change...average aquarist is contemplating 10%. run that anytime you want, it wont matter. the same day you add bac, wont matter, same cycling outcome.

 

[brandon429]

my new favorite cycling vernacular: do those rocks even look not cycled bro lol