Should I dose Nitrates and Aminos?

[Gator_Reefer]

Hi all - Looking for help with improving my very low nutrient system. For background, I have a 6 gal nano with no skimmer and run a pad of filter floss and small bag of carbon and GFO in the HOB filter chamber. I feed reef roids weekly and fed my two clowns daily. Tank is about a year old established.

I’ve been testing undetectable nitrates (<0.25 ppm) and 0.05-0.10ppm PO4 for a long while now. I believe I’ve noticed some slight improvement in coloration of some of my corals (mixed reef) when dosing Nitrates.

I recently purchased Brightwell’s CoralAminos after watching the BRS spotlight video on it.

My question is should I dose both Nitrate and Aminos? Or stick to one source?

 

[Iván Olalla]

Different function, no harm on dosing both as long as you keep an eye in your numbers. I dose nitrate and acro power to my pico reef and feed heavily in order to keep detectable nitrate and phosphate levels

 

[Gator_Reefer]

Different function, no harm on dosing both as long as you keep an eye in your numbers. I dose nitrate and acro power to my pico reef and feed heavily in order to keep detectable nitrate and phosphate levels

Thanks for the response. It made me wonder since I'm under the assumption that they are both forms of nitrogen, just in different stages, and would ultimately serve the same purpose. I just wasn't sure if I could stick to one type, so I could keep the dosing complexity to a minimum.

Do you feel there is a benefit in your tank to dosing Acro Power in addition to Nitrates?

 

[jda]

You are using GFO and GAC and want to add in stuff? You know that both of these remove them, right? Why not just cut back on this if you are really wanting to raise the levels?

 

[Gator_Reefer]

You are using GFO and GAC and want to add in stuff? You know that both of these remove them, right? Why not just cut back on this if you are really wanting to raise the levels?

I've thought about that, problem is my phosphates quickly get out of hand (>0.70ppm) if I don't use GFO. As far as the GAC, I thought it doesn't work to pull Nitrates out?

 

[jda]

GAC binds organics before they break down in the nitrogen cycle. You are removing them on the front end before they become nitrate on the back end (phosphate too).

Most of your corals are going to want to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and having higher levels of nitrate will not likely do much. I know that there is a lot of popular sentiment on message boards among parrots and the uninformed that somehow higher levels are better... but export equaling import is the way to go and let the corals use what is in the tank at the moment while keeping residuals low.

Personally, I would not dose anything... the aminos, nitrate or reef roids. I never have and everything looks good. The clownfish waste is enough.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

You are using GFO and GAC and want to add in stuff? You know that both of these remove them, right? Why not just cut back on this if you are really wanting to raise the levels?

Cuz that’s not fun. Dosing stuff is fun!

 

[LARedstickreefer]

GAC binds organics before they break down in the nitrogen cycle. You are removing them on the front end before they become nitrate on the back end (phosphate too).

Most of your corals are going to want to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and having higher levels of nitrate will not likely do much. I know that there is a lot of popular sentiment on message boards among parrots and the uninformed that somehow higher levels are better... but export equaling import is the way to go and let the corals use what is in the tank at the moment while keeping residuals low.

Personally, I would not dose anything... the aminos, nitrate or reef roids. I never have and everything looks good. The clownfish waste is enough.

What’s your take on a system that’s had a massive algae outbreak? The algae is now in direct competition with the corals for nitrates and phosphate and is able to drag both to “zero”. Wouldn’t dosing both while you work on beating back the algae make sense?

 

[jda]

How are you going to beat back algae if you are dosing? What product is out there that just works on coral, but not on algae.

You need consumers for algae. Starving algae starves the coral. Feeding the coral feeds the algae. High tide lifts all ships... Off topic, but the same goes with bacteria...

BTW, they are not in direct competition. Corals will use ammonia/ammonium for nitrogen whereas algae can use nitrate on down the line - it costs coral energy to use nitrate, so dosing it probably not not doing what anybody thinks. Corals get the first shot by going after the ammonia and ammonium.

Look at the ocean where corals thrive with .1 nitrogen and .005-.01 phoshate. Why does anybody think that they need more? Algae can thrive with this amount too, but in the ocean, stuff consumes it. N and P are NOT food... they are building blocks where a surplus is a surplus... zoox provides the food through light... and if the coral can catch actual food in the case of LPS or NPS.

 

[Gator_Reefer]

How are you going to beat back algae if you are dosing? What product is out there that just works on coral, but not on algae.

You need consumers for algae. Starving algae starves the coral. Feeding the coral feeds the algae. High tide lifts all ships... Off topic, but the same goes with bacteria...

BTW, they are not in direct competition. Corals will use ammonia/ammonium for nitrogen whereas algae can use nitrate on down the line - it costs coral energy to use nitrate, so dosing it probably not not doing what anybody thinks. Corals get the first shot by going after the ammonia and ammonium.

Look at the ocean where corals thrive with .1 nitrogen and .005-.01 phoshate. Why does anybody think that they need more? Algae can thrive with this amount too, but in the ocean, stuff consumes it. N and P are NOT food... they are building blocks where a surplus is a surplus... zoox provides the food through light... and if the coral can catch actual food in the case of LPS or NPS.

Thanks jda....this is pretty insightful. Do you have any references where I can read up more on what you're describing?

 

[LARedstickreefer]

How are you going to beat back algae if you are dosing? What product is out there that just works on coral, but not on algae.

You need consumers for algae. Starving algae starves the coral. Feeding the coral feeds the algae. High tide lifts all ships... Off topic, but the same goes with bacteria...

BTW, they are not in direct competition. Corals will use ammonia/ammonium for nitrogen whereas algae can use nitrate on down the line - it costs coral energy to use nitrate, so dosing it probably not not doing what anybody thinks. Corals get the first shot by going after the ammonia and ammonium.

Look at the ocean where corals thrive with .1 nitrogen and .005-.01 phoshate. Why does anybody think that they need more? Algae can thrive with this amount too, but in the ocean, stuff consumes it. N and P are NOT food... they are building blocks where a surplus is a surplus... zoox provides the food through light... and if the coral can catch actual food in the case of LPS or NPS.

Snails and such to fight back the algae...

I think there is more to the nitrates vs ammonia idea just based on first hand observations. Why, for some of us, does dosing nitrates seem to bring corals back from the brink when feeding alone doesn’t?

Is it just as simple as feeding alone not being enough, of the right type food, for corals? Maybe dosing ammonia should be done instead of dosing nitrates?

I sort of see dosing as a temporary act when things have done upside down. Food, alone, ought to be enough until something gets screwed up.

 

[Iván Olalla]

Thanks for the response. It made me wonder since I'm under the assumption that they are both forms of nitrogen, just in different stages, and would ultimately serve the same purpose. I just wasn't sure if I could stick to one type, so I could keep the dosing complexity to a minimum.

Do you feel there is a benefit in your tank to dosing Acro Power in addition to Nitrates?

NP, the chemistry behinh i dont know so well, i started dosing potassium nitrate because my levels were to low, even with several weekly feeds and the acropower... Changes in my sps with acropower very noticeables, polyp extension and color.

I dont need to make wc s but a s acreature of habits i do regularly, in my fresh batch i dose the nitrate, acropower and iodine with adjusted kh to keep the same numbers always

 

[ZoWhat]

So heres my take. ULNS stink. They starve corals

NEWS FLASH...... growing algae is a GREAT sign everything in you tank is metabolizing nutrients!

The key is to keep NO3 btwn 2-10ppm. PO4very low.

So how do you CONTROL algae (which is an awesome sign things are metabolizing)

1) a SERIOUS CUC. .... in my 180g DT I have 50 snails and at last check 125+ hermits

2) bristletooth tangs... I have a kole and a tomini that get along and they're always picking at algae in LR.

3) Overrated SKIMMER that's great at extracting organics in a half day if ran wet.

I dose:
Brightwell REPLENISH
Brightwell Blizzard L
PolypLabs Amino BOOSTER
PolypLabs ReefRoids
Two Lityle Fishies GoniPower
80proof Vodka

If I didn't have items #1, 2, 3 abovemy reef would be an Algae Swamp

But I've dialed in what to fed and dose in specific amts to keep coraks and algae growjng.

Youll have to figure out your own regiment


.

 

[Iván Olalla]

GAC binds organics before they break down in the nitrogen cycle. You are removing them on the front end before they become nitrate on the back end (phosphate too).

Most of your corals are going to want to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and having higher levels of nitrate will not likely do much. I know that there is a lot of popular sentiment on message boards among parrots and the uninformed that somehow higher levels are better... but export equaling import is the way to go and let the corals use what is in the tank at the moment while keeping residuals low.

Personally, I would not dose anything... the aminos, nitrate or reef roids. I never have and everything looks good. The clownfish waste is enough.

The issue with small tanks is uptake. In my case overstocked 8 gallon tank with 3 fish... kh consumption is 1.7/1.9 dkh daily, without dosing my nitrate and phosphate levels go down to almost zero, even with heavy feeding, and wc s only 10% twice a month. i try to keep nitrate in a 5-7 range and phosphate .05-.07 and can only achive this dosing...no way i can put another fish in there

 

[sde1500]

Wouldn’t dosing both while you work on beating back the algae make sense?

I would say that is wildly counter-productive.

Why, for some of us, does dosing nitrates seem to bring corals back from the brink when feeding alone doesn’t?

Could very well be confirmation bias, you are looking for results so will see them. But I'd say you're just substituting feeding enough with dosing an end product. I think it is important to have a good fish bio-load, feed them, their byproduct will feed the corals.

Is it just as simple as feeding alone not being enough, of the right type food, for corals? Maybe dosing ammonia should be done instead of dosing nitrates?

I'd much rather feed more fish, or use coral foods, than just dumping nitrates in the tank.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I would say that is wildly counter-productive.


Could very well be confirmation bias, you are looking for results so will see them. But I'd say you're just substituting feeding enough with dosing an end product. I think it is important to have a good fish bio-load, feed them, their byproduct will feed the corals.


I'd much rather feed more fish, or use coral foods, than just dumping nitrates in the tank.

I think “confirmation bias” is pretty dismissive. Either your corals wither up and die or they don’t. For me, and many others, dosing nitrates took a brown, withered, coral back to its former glory when food alone wasn’t cutting it. Once a corals goes dark brown, closes up PE, and begins to stn, it dies no matter how much I’d feed. Breaking down and dosing some nitrates reverses this.