Should I start over ?

[tweeter]

Taking out the rock and livestock, replacing sand and new salt water, then putting livestock back is not going to fix the issue.

If it was me I would add more fish and increase the bio load. Don’t dose any “reef safe” medication or magical elixirs. If you have Dino’s from water changes don’t do any water changes. Wait for the Dino’s to get out completed. There are threads on how to beat Dino’s and it doesn’t appear you nitrate and phosphate are bottomed out. An ultraviolet sterilizer may be something to consider, permanently or temporarily.
If it has been 22 months, bacteria should not be an issue. All the coral that you added would have bacteria on it that would help seed the tank. That’s just me, I am a dry rock fan.
Keep it simple , go slow, nothing good happens overnight. Listen to the folks in this thread, your tank is beautiful.
Many people will say do this or do that. Stability is the key to success

Good advice!

 

[PocketGoose]

I think this is interesting and I want to make sure I make the most of it.

I dose All for Reef daily. Not a huge amount, just 15 ml but it keeps my parameters steady. When I do a medium/large WC, AFR levels are decreased. So maybe this is what causes dinos to bloom ?

So AFR would be the limiting factor ? Except that when I do a WC, it’s not re-introduced, it’s decreased, isn’t it ?

Would that mean I need to dose more of it to help corals grow ? I mean it’s not going to increase my mag and cal levels, but it will increase my alkalinity for sure. For now it’s at 9.5 or 9.6

I wonder if I should try that ?

Okay, so you do have some supplementation from AFR. I really can't speak on how the addition of the AFR affects all the different parameters of your tank specifically...

In my tank, I will notice subtle changes in polyp extension, "puffiness", and sometimes coloration when something is awry (Like you, I have what I consider stable tank parameters that do not fluctuate tremendously) ..this is almost ALWAYS coupled with lack of growth of most types of "nuisance" algae that is present in my tank (I.E film algae on glass, a few patches of Ulva). My nutrient levels are very similar to yours and with those number I would expect to see at least some form of algae consistently growing, but it doesn't. For my situation, I have determined some element, aside from the big three, is missing. My solution has been increased volume WC's to hopefully replenish what I am missing. Almost every time a day or two after WC's, algae begins to show and corals return to their normal healthy state. In your case, your fear of dinos is understandable but I really think if they have sometime to explode and eventually be outcompeted, you will end up with a more desirable result in the long run.

I also have no clue of how replenishment levels differ from AFR to a strict WC schedule, but with WC's you also have the benefit of getting some fresh water in there and removing any harmful compounds that may build up from standard tank feedings and things of that nature.

I'm not sure I would consider the AFR a limiting factor, and your ICP results will hopefully shed some light on what's going on. The last time I did mine, iodine and manganese we're depleted according to ATI. I started by adding an iodine supplement and almost immediately noticed increased algae growth, a decline in PO4 and NO3 from that growth, and relatively "puffier" corals. Two weeks later the tank hit another lull followed by slight tissue regression on some of my SPS. The newly available iodine probably sparked some growth spurts and everything was rushing to take it up, in turn those growth spurts then depleted another "something". I did not send out another ICP but took a more rounded approach and just increased my WC volume to hopefully balance some of the lesser elemental chemistry in the tank. I've been pretty steady since.

Point being the organisms we keep are all fighting to use certain elements and organic compounds available to them, naturally, if demand outweighs input, there is a limit. I would not make any drastic changes until you receive the results from the ICP. We're just spitballin here haha!

These are just some things I have noticed in my particular system/situation. Maybe some of will help, maybe some won't...

 

[Idech]

Point being the organisms we keep are all fighting to use certain elements and organic compounds available to them, naturally, if demand outweighs input, there is a limit. I would not make any drastic changes until you receive the results from the ICP. We're just spitballin here haha!

I agree with you on both statements ! Thanks for explaining. It’s really hard to know what goes on in our tanks, but everything you said makes sense.

 

[PocketGoose]

I agree with you on both statements ! Thanks for explaining. It’s really hard to know what goes on in our tanks, but everything you said makes sense.

Absolutely! I'm now awaiting your test results as eagerly as you.. hah!

I don't know if you saw in my initial post, but I had asked what your initial ICP test said and what fell short?

 

[Idech]

I don't know if you saw in my initial post, but I had asked what your initial ICP test said and what fell short?

Yes, I did and I replied ! Look at post #58; I put a link to the thread I made when I got my results.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know.

 

[Rocky Mountain Reef]

I can ship to Canada using ups but I still have to clear through USFWL and they take a cut of about $200. Thanks for the referral! Appreciate it!

I checked out your website. Do you quarantine your fish at all? If so, what procedure do you follow?

 

[jda]

Did you happen to use a decent amount of pesticide like Vibrant, or anything? These can have long-lasting effect on some corals while others are not affected at all.

I agree that some real ocean live rock could really help your diversity. I would take all of the money for buying pods, ICP tests, etc. and spend it on a 10-145 pound pack of live rock. Full disclosure, I am not a huge fan of ICP since they don't test for everything, don't tell you what forms that elements are in (some can be good and some bad for the same element), are never a magic bullet and often create more new questions than give answers.

Water changes are good. Even if they cause issues, you need to work past this. They are the best way to make sure that you are getting bad things out of the tank and to add good things without worrying about testing or over dosing.

Are you skimming well?

 

[jda]

I would not worry about traces of supplementation right now, outside of the big 3. Add in salinity and temp and that is about it.

Traces that are out of whack do not give a long list of death like in your first post. If you had living corals that had mediocre color or were not growing super fast, then that is when you tune in on traces and elements and stuff. Death is well past this.

 

[PocketGoose]

Yes, I did and I replied ! Look at post #58; I put a link to the thread I made when I got my results.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know.

Cool, I’ll check it out when I get back home to a computer!

 

[Idech]

Did you happen to use a decent amount of pesticide like Vibrant, or anything? These can have long-lasting effect on some corals while others are not affected at all.

Never any Vibrant or any pesticide. I had some deaths in the tank before Christmas and used some Reef Safe medication in the tank. Prazi pro and another one that I can’t remember but was probably ineffective because it was frozen when I got it. Not at the same time though.

Between and after treatments, I did medium/big water changes. And then the dinos came back.

Water changes are good. Even if they cause issues, you need to work past this. They are the best way to make sure that you are getting bad things out of the tank and to add good things without worrying about testing or over dosing.

I plan on changing 4 gallons per week.

Are you skimming well?

Yes, I have a Tunze 9012 DC skimmer and it’s on all day.

Traces that are out of whack do not give a long list of death like in your first post. If you had living corals that had mediocre color or were not growing super fast, then that is when you tune in on traces and elements and stuff. Death is well past this.

NEW DATA : I figured I would try dipping a few corals in Iodine this morning. After I put them back in the tank, one coral, a Favia, started immediately extending polyps to feed, which it had only done once, many weeks ago.

This coral had started browning. I suppose it’s brown jelly disease? I am going to have to research how to get rid of it but if you have any tips, please go ahead !

 

[jda]

PE can mean lots of good things, bit is also is used for gas exchange. Often, corals have good PE in bags or after dips since they struggled to respire for a while and need to catch up.

I totally hope that this new PE is here to stay, but don't take it too personally if it is short lived.

 

[dieselkeeper]

Nice tank. You have coraline algae growing on the back glass. That tells me that alk, calcium and mag parameters are good. Looking the list of your corals that are alive and the ones you lost. The ones that are alive are low light corals. The one that have died are high demand lighting. I would borrow a par meter to see where your light intensity is at.

 

[SaltySqueeble]

0,07 and 18,4

I’d say there is definitely an imbalance in nitrate and phosphate. Nitrites pretty high, phosphates below .1 . Lots of those corals that died are sps and hard to keep in a newer tanks with that high of nitrates. Soft corals May like that. Can you remove the Dino’s by hand? Suck them out completely? Maybe even a chemical clean if that’s messing with your system. Keep trying and don’t go wild on the Acros and and candy canes for now. Hammers are more successful than torches and frogspawn. Your Mushrooms look great and maybe some clove polyps or something for movement

 

[Idech]

The ones that are alive are low light corals. The one that have died are high demand lighting. I would borrow a par meter to see where your light intensity is at.

It’s been on my to-do list for a while. I tried increasing light intensity a few weeks back and it didn’t go well; corals weren’t happy in general even though I used acclimation. So I took it back to where it is now.

I have 4 x AI Prime so should have the capacity for just about any corals. Just need to find the right schedule and not kill everything while doing so.

I’d say there is definitely an imbalance in nitrate and phosphate. Nitrites pretty high, phosphates below .

I doubt that I have any nitrites. Nitrates weren’t always that high, They were at 0 for a long time and I was dosing Neonitro. They got higher when I started feeding 4-5 times a day after having battled disease and adding new fish.

I’ve since went down to 2 small feedings a day so nitrates should very slowly go down. It takes months though.

Can you remove the Dino’s by hand? Suck them out completely? Maybe even a chemical clean if that’s messing with your system. Keep trying and don’t go wild on the Acros and and candy canes for now.

After dosing high levels of silicate for months and months, I have no more dinos. As long as I don’t do too big of a eater change, they stay in check.

Your Mushrooms look great and maybe some clove polyps or something for movement

Thank you ! Clove polyps were on my list but I’m afraid they’ll become invasive. I recently added anthelia and it’s growing nicely.

 

[SaltySqueeble]

It’s been on my to-do list for a while. I tried increasing light intensity a few weeks back and it didn’t go well; corals weren’t happy in general even though I used acclimation. So I took it back to where it is now.

I have 4 x AI Prime so should have the capacity for just about any corals. Just need to find the right schedule and not kill everything while doing so.


I doubt that I have any nitrites. Nitrates weren’t always that high, They were at 0 for a long time and I was dosing Neonitro. They got higher when I started feeding 4-5 times a day after having battled disease and adding new fish.

I’ve since went down to 2 small feedings a day so nitrates should very slowly go down. It takes months though.


After dosing high levels of silicate for months and months, I have no more dinos. As long as I don’t do too big of a eater change, they stay in check.


Thank you ! Clove polyps were on my list but I’m afraid they’ll become invasive. I recently added anthelia and it’s growing nicely.

There is that risk over time. Same with Xenia. I’d say you’ve got this!

It’s been on my to-do list for a while. I tried increasing light intensity a few weeks back and it didn’t go well; corals weren’t happy in general even though I used acclimation. So I took it back to where it is now.

I have 4 x AI Prime so should have the capacity for just about any corals. Just need to find the right schedule and not kill everything while doing so.


I doubt that I have any nitrites. Nitrates weren’t always that high, They were at 0 for a long time and I was dosing Neonitro. They got higher when I started feeding 4-5 times a day after having battled disease and adding new fish.

I’ve since went down to 2 small feedings a day so nitrates should very slowly go down. It takes months though.


After dosing high levels of silicate for months and months, I have no more dinos. As long as I don’t do too big of a eater change, they stay in check.


Thank you ! Clove polyps were on my list but I’m afraid they’ll become invasive. I recently added anthelia and it’s growing nicely.

I have some cool pipe organs and green Duncans that I love and seem to be hardy as ever.

 

[Idech]

I have some cool pipe organs and green Duncans that I love and seem to be hardy as ever.

Nice ! My duncan is one of my favorites and I added a pipe organ a few weeks ago. I hope it does well, not sure yet.

I regularly trim my xenia with a hemostat. It’s very invasive !

Your pipe organ looks like it’s on the bottom too ?

 

[SaltySqueeble]

Nice ! My duncan is one of my favorites and I added a pipe organ a few weeks ago. I hope it does well, not sure yet.

I regularly trim my xenia with a hemostat. It’s very invasive !

Your pipe organ looks like it’s on the bottom too ?

Yea, they’re just below half tank. They almost died during shipment, retracted to maybe 8 polyps, and finally started coming back with a force 6 months later. Now there’s 100s of polyps

 

[Idech]

I’m so excited ! I did a lot of research to find a par meter at a reasonable price and ended up watching a video of someone testing the Photone App on his iphone and comparing it to an apogee par meter or other. I had heard about it from someone here also.

The results are amazingly close so I decided to buy the same waterproof pouch (Joto) and installed Photone on my phone. The pouch should be here tomorrow night so I’ll be measuring par on Monday if all goes well !

 

[TWYOUNG]

I have had a very similar experience as yours. I've looked over all of the "reasons" people have given to cause this and same as yourself none apply. The general consensus seems to be that my 1yo tank, started with dry rock and sand, just is not mature and stabile enough for stony corals. Yes, I do have coralline algae growth but that doesn't seem to be the definite indication the tank is ready for more difficult specimens.

 

[bshapiro19]

I have had a very similar experience as yours. I've looked over all of the "reasons" people have given to cause this and same as yourself none apply. The general consensus seems to be that my 1yo tank, started with dry rock and sand, just is not mature and stabile enough for stony corals. Yes, I do have coralline algae growth but that doesn't seem to be the definite indication the tank is ready for more difficult specimens.

Don't think I saw this mentioned in any of the posts, do you have a UV Sterilizer? This will certainly help prevent any new dinos from growing. If not, run the UV at high flow and scoop or siphon out the dinos at your next WC.